426

(2,068 replies, posted in Off Topic)

ThrowbackSoul wrote:

Speaking of Paths of Glory, does anybody else whose seen this film have a problem with the fact that all the actors (with the exception of the girl singing at the end) are supposed to be French but none of them actually are?

They're all speaking French. We're just hearing them speak through a universal translator which puts it into English for us smile

427

(1,649 replies, posted in Off Topic)

RAW, is that a Magic Lantern setting?

A fair amount of it, because in many cases you can chart a line between original trilogy materials and the EU. The authors that have played in George's backyard, so to speak, are nearly always running on the same assumptions that everyone else had about the backstory. They've seen the same movies, read the same novelisations, and tracked down the same earlier drafts of the scripts.

Part of what made the PT a disappointing experience is that Lucas decided to chuck almost everything out, and in its place introduced story elements that weren't fully reasoned; it's why we have such a disjointed saga.

We continue!

21 - Return of the Archons
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__9PCmBrOEMA/TFLiwrYH2UI/AAAAAAAAELI/aC-Frdt_2Rw/s320/archons.jpg

The crew guest star in a western! Seriously though, the crew beam down to the set of a western. Or maybe Westworld. The society on this planet's run by this powerful being called Landrew, which I kept thinking was similar to Andrew, so that was a bit distracting. Landrew runs the place like a cult and so Kirk decides to put a stop to it, in what I believe is the first example of him deliberately breaking the prime directive. It's nothing special, the resolution is the best thing - Kirk using his wits and talking Landrew into submission. There's this thing where the society are all in a dazed happiness and then run wild for short time with 'anything goes' during that period. The residents of the western backlot completely trash their home, and rape, robbery and presumably murder all occur, then they go back to normal once the 'festival' is done. I don't really buy the idea that a society that has 'limited crime anmesty' can be functional, but at least I now see where that recent movie The Purge got the idea from. The epilogue implies that Kirk's actions have screwed up the planet, but the message appears to be that mankind needs its dark side to mature and that they're ultimately end up being ok.

22 - Space Seed
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090604045433/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/7/72/Khan_Noonien_Singh%2C_2267.jpg/559px-Khan_Noonien_Singh%2C_2267.jpg

This is what it's all been about! (well, at least partially.) Kirk and his crew wake up Khan, who has been floating in space for a couple hundred years, and as we all know from Wrath of Khan, the 20th century (!) superhuman tries to take over the Enterprise and is marooned on Ceti Alpha V instead. My first thought watching this was, wow, Montalban looks so young! And whilst I knew the beats from the movie/Chekov's summation, it was fascinating to see how the events unfolded and the interactions between Kirk and Khan, both psychological and physical. They have a bit of a punch up too, which I thought was surprisingly well done for the 60s. I was rivetted the whole episode, except one part. Khan is incredibly abusive towards a female crewmember (who I assume ends up becoming his wife) and she's written to take this abuse and still adore him. I know that there are stories in real life about wives staying with their husbands despite the occasional abuse, ultimately because there's still love there, but this lady has only just met Khan and he's twisting her arm and causing her pain - her reaction? Something like 'oh please don't send me away'.

Good episode, but not as good as I thought it would be. I suppose it's hard for it to live up to the expectations set by the movie.

23 - A Taste of Armaggedon
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100118192351/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/4/46/Eminiar_Guards.jpg/602px-Eminiar_Guards.jpg

The Enterprise visits a planet waging a war with its neighbour via computer. Over hundreds of years each civilisation has been killing its own people in accordance with casualty projections provided by the computer. As a result, each civilisation - its buildings, traditions and culture - is preserved. The chosen few line up and walk into a chamber to be disintegrated, entirely willingly. Ok, weird, but the Enterprise and its crew are declared casualties too and so must also be proccessed, prompting Kirk to ignore the prime directive and put a stop to the whole affair.  On the planet, Kirk and Spock and a few others must escape capture and on the ship in orbit, Scotty has to contend with not knowing what's happened to his captain and being ordered about by a diplomat. There's a great moment where Scotty uses his wits and checks a message supposedly sent to them by Kirk, and another even greater scene where he refuses to obey an order to lower the Enterprise's shields. Memory Alpha says that in real life James Doohan, whilst serving in the Canadian Artillery, refused an order given by a colonel during a training exercise which would have killed his own men. The asshat diplomat even has an arc too, which means that everything comes together really well.

This has been my absolute favourite episode of all so far, as I felt the message of the episiode was right on. Absent the true horrors of war, the society lacked the motivation to see it end. Further, Kirk goes about enacting his plan to enact change with the kind of coolness, cunning and perceptiveness that I've come to expect from him and what I've enjoyed seeing so much whilst watching the series. I am simply loving this Kirk.

24 - This Side of Paradise
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080830024517/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/e/e3/Spock_and_Leila_Kalomi.jpg/640px-Spock_and_Leila_Kalomi.jpg

A deserted colony turns out not to be deserted at all, the residents alive and well thanks to weird plants; plants that then infect the Enterprise crew and turn them into happy dappy folks. I get the feeling that these 'magic substance affects our emotions' episodes are really about letting Spock not be so Vulcan. As you can probably tell, I wasn't a fan of this one. I'm not sure what this episode is supposed to be about, or what it's revealing about the characters than we've not already seen - especially since it essentially ends with a reset. However, it's pretty funny, with Spock goofing off, so maybe this is the obligatory comedy episode of this season?



Last batch coming next smile I'll bet folks will be happy to know I won't be doing this for the next 2 seasons!

430

(346 replies, posted in Off Topic)

drewjmore wrote:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/976419_517735398275642_2124868089_o.jpgLooks legit to me, granted I'm no rocket surgeon.

It looks less impressive in video  smile



I seem to have missed this earlier, but Inspiration Mars sounds like a very real and feasible project. It involves a Mars flyby (within 100 miles of the surface I believe), with a launch in January 2018, with a married couple on board. Similar sort of thing as Apollo 8. These two humans would be the first of our kind to ever leave our little neighbourhood!

Video animation:

A conference with more details:

431

(2,068 replies, posted in Off Topic)

TechNoir wrote:

Europa Report - 5/10

http://sharilopatin.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/oh-no.jpg

I was really looking forward to that one. Damn... I blame Teague, he jinxed it.

And so we continue.

17 - The Squire of Gothos
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060228154241/memoryalpha/en/images/6/65/Trelane.jpg

The Enterprise runs into a seeminly omnipotent being who wants to have some of the crew as playthings. Kirk objects, and so the episode involves the crew trying to find the source of the being's power and shutting it down. Having just watched the second season 'Apollo' episode, the two are very similar (right down to the fact that the beings are recreating eras in Earth history). The being fancies himself as a Napoleonic era general and appears besotted with that time, so there's juxtaposition between Kirk, the enlightened contemporary man, and the violent man of the past. There's a really interesting moment when the crew realise the food looks great, but doesn't taste good, and I like that it's this revelation that leads to them to conclude that the being has weaknesses and that therefore there is a way out. And Kirk, always the thinking man, is able to goad the being into hunting him to buy some more time - cue action scene. In the end, the episode has shades of Charlie X, complete with a deus ex machina resolution to the crew's predicament. So the climax seems to fizzle out.

18 - Arena AKA Gorn Attack
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081207054606/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/b/bd/Cestus_III_outpost_destroyed%2C_remastered.jpg/640px-Cestus_III_outpost_destroyed%2C_remastered.jpg

The Enterprise chases a raider ship responsible for the destruction of a colony, but then a race of powerful beings trap Kirk and his raider counterpart on a planet where they must personally face each other in combat. Except that the raider is a Gorn, with must greater physical strength and durability. Kirk thus needs to find a way to even the odds. It's wonderful to at last see this one, the episode that seems to have had such an influence on popular culture and the rest of Trek, to see where the Galaxy Quest joke really comes from ("Look around you, can you form some sort of rudimentary lathe?"). This is Kirk at his best in my view, striving to use his brains to solve the problem, and getting exhausted and beat up a lot like a vulnerable human rather than a superhero.

The Enterprise tends to run into a lot of these superbeings on their journey, and it's not always the most interesting premise for an episode, but I feel that this has the most satisfying ending; the race thinks we might be worth talking to in a few thousand years (when we've overcome our baser instincts). I'm a fan of Stargate SG-1, and one of the best episodes in that long running series was called The Fifth Race, in which the Asgardian aliens also believe humans will ultimately be worthy. I suppose I'm an optimist  smile

19 - Tomorrow is Yesterday
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080303224331/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/6/6c/Fellini_questions_Kirk.jpg/633px-Fellini_questions_Kirk.jpg

Oh my god! This is where the whole flying into the sun to go back in time thing comes from! This is the kind of unexpected joy that I've had watching the series. The Enterprise is accidentally sent back into the late 60s (what a coincidence eh?) and as they fly through Earth's upper atmosphere they're discovered by an American pilot. They attempt to use a tractor beam (I forget why) and are forced to beam the pilot aboard when his jet breaks apart under the stress. The pilot thus becomes exposed to the future and can't be returned to the surface in case he changes the course of history. And whilst they wrestle with that dilemma, they have to work out how to return to their own time. I loved this episode, including a scene where Kirk is interrogated by some security guards and is almost obnoxiously cool. 

Spock makes a mistake in this one which really surprised me. He comments that the pilot has made no contributions to history, but completely neglects to consider any of his descendents! That's a schoolboy error. But then it's Original Series Trek, which means that it's merely the set-up for more great interplay between Kirk, McCoy and Spock.

20 - Court Martial
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130112174539/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/1/1f/CourtMartial.jpg/634px-CourtMartial.jpg

I love, love, love this episode. Kirk is faced with a court martial after evidence is found on the Enterprise computer that he wrongfully jettisoned a pod containing one of his crewmembers (killing him) during a storm. Former classmates don't believe him and spurn him and the victim's daughter screams at him, Kirk is in trouble but is adamant that what he did was the right thing to do - even though it clearly pains him that it resulted in the death of someone he once considered a friend. He gets a craggy old lawyer to defend him and thus the stage is set for an engaging trial, which is superior to Spock's trial in Menagerie in every way. We also, finally it seems, get an actual female character, a smart and independent lawyer who prosecutes the case against Kirk. She used to be former flame of his years ago, but doesn't fall into his arms like every other hormone-controlled woman on the show, and is conflicted because she's going against a friend and not because of love; she nevertheless still does her job, and does it excellently. She's still played by a stunning actress (there isn't a single remotely unattractive female cast in the entire season), but she's not dressed up for the amusement of a powerful being and, to my recollection, isn't photographed in that awfully corny soft focus manner. There's a scene near the end which is masterful, and is probably the smartest thing I've seen on TV in a long while. Granted, it may have been born from budget constraints but if anyone did it now, a superb, suspenseful scene would have been replaced by a dull 'deck by deck search'.

The more I see of Shatner's Kirk, the less impressed I am of Abram's/Pine's version. It's not a pale shadow, it's a completely different and totally inferior character.

Moving into the second half the season now, and it's starting to get really good in my view.  smile  Some episodes are a real delight to watch.

Trying to hold back off on the spoilers from here on, in case some haven't seen them yet.

13 - Conscience of a King
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081207182660/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/b/bf/Anton_Karidian_performs_Macbeth.jpg/640px-Anton_Karidian_performs_Macbeth.jpg

A fascinating episode where an old friend of Kirk's insists that an elderly Shakespearean actor is actually a long-thought dead war criminal. And thus a sort of detective story unfolds as Kirk employs various methods of exposing the actor, including getting the actor to read out a speech the war criminal had once given. Meanwhile, witnesses of the criminal from years ago are being murdered. It has obvious parallels to the hunt for Nazis but there are a few twists added in to make it distinct. Firstly, the actor has a loving daughter who's doing what she can to protect him, second, they introduce this possibility that by killing thousands, the war criminal may have actually saved millions, and thirdly, a crew member whose family had been among the victims overhears the suspicions and decides to serve some justice of his own.

Great episode! I was riveted and they manage to involve Kirk in more ways than just starship captain who happens to be around - he's personally involved both due to him being a witness and the fact that his friend has been murdered. I like how history is constantly coming up, supporting the current events and providing scope to the universe and its characters. All without being introduced in some clumsy flashback wraparound story like it does in the other Trek series. At this point, I'm acutely reminded that the flashback doesn't seem to have become a TV trope yet!

14 - Balance of Terror
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110609172161/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/d/d5/Romulan_commander_and_Centurian.jpg/640px-Romulan_commander_and_Centurian.jpg

The Enterprise pursues a Romulan warbird that's destroyed several Federation outposts as it retreats back across the Neutral Zone. One of the top 5 for me definitely. It's a tense submarine cat and mouse story with Kirk pitting his wits against... Spock's father? One of those unfortunate results of watching this all back to front is seeing the actor who played Spock's father in the movies showing up in his first Trek role as the Romulan commander. Again, events of the past come to influence the present, as a tense peace exists between the Federation and the Romulans, which the latter part have broken with their sneak attack. And further, they never learned what the Romulans looked like so we're all equally treated to a stunning revelation that they look just like Vulcans (except I guess if you're already seen Next Gen, oh well). This then introduces a rather startling subplot as one of the Enterprise bridge officers develops a strong dislike of Spock as a result of the similarity and isn't the least bit subtle about it. I don't believe it's a 1:1 racism analogy, as the officer only develops his feelings after Vulcans and Romulans are shown to look alike, but to me it seems reminscent of the Cold War, with a "you're a commie too and I don't like commies!" vibe. That the crewmember had a personal grudge against the Romulans due to the war (history again!) I feel contributes more to this interpretation than anything to do with race.

Highly recommend this one. Actually, if there's any one episode that I'd get someone to see it would probably be this one. Accessible, exciting without stuff constantly exploding, engaging and genuinely surprising... all without any really obvious moments of ACTING!

15 - Shore Leave
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20050129153558/memoryalpha/en/images/3/3d/McCoyDeath.jpg

I guess they can't all be great. The Enterprise away team beams down to a bizarre magic land whilst searching for R&R. And it's just that, a magic land where things happen for little to no reason thanks to a mind-reading, seemingly omnipotent race of beings. This to me is weak Trek. Be careful what you wish for I guess could be an underyling message, but it could surely have been done better than this. Maybe Crichton got his idea for Sphere from this?

Tripe. Next!

16 - The Galileo Seven
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081207041021/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/0/01/GalileoCrew.jpg/640px-GalileoCrew.jpg

And right back into the game! The shuttle Galileo, carrying 7 crewmembers in its sparse interior including Spock, Scotty and McCoy, runs into trouble during a space storm and crashes onto a planet. Straight from the screenwriters' manual, there's a time limit to their rescue as the Enterprise has to deliver medical supplies somewhere else and a guy on board is insisting on assuming command over Kirk if he stays too long there. Meanwhile, the Galileo crew have to work together to fix their busted ship, contending both with Spock's command style and the hostile planet natives. And of course, some redshirts may have been harmed in the making of this episode (though again, not wearing the red shirt - where does that trope even come from then?)

Another good one, really didn't know what was going to happen in this one (aside from predictably of death) and the ending is just great.

434

(39 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Wow, this is always amazing. Many congrats.

435

(346 replies, posted in Off Topic)

drewjmore wrote:

I'll just leave this here:
http://www.jpaerospace.com/whatsnewpics/ascender90-2.jpg

And more information (a sort of FAQ) here:
http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/10/floati … educe.html

Interesting but not entirely convincing. Some problems that come to my mind are how they plan to get a mile-long inflatable into orbital velocity without it breaking apart under stress or being shredded by space debris, how the Dark Sky Station (2 miles long) or orbital ascender stages (1 mile long) get up there in the first place and are deployed, and how the ascender stage is supposed to rendezvous with the station (which if untethered is likely not stationary). The sheer size of these massive structures will pose significant engineering challenges as well, they're an order of magnititude larger than anything built so far, not to mention the atmospheric drag they introduce.

It comes back to the same problem as earlier, the orbital airship still needs to reach 15,000 mph, and the fact that it starts at high altitude isn't helpful. The only benefit is that it doesn't drop out of the sky like a brick. But... any propulsion method will need to be constantly firing to counteract air resistance and drag, which are still present that high up, whilst still generating sufficient thrust to increase speed. Something like 5 days was mentioned, but could be a lot longer than that (which in turn means added weight for consumables which means greater size to keep that weight bouyant which means greater drag and so on). The ISS for instance, which is a lot further up, requires frequent burns to maintain its orbit.

Current electric propulsion isn't used in gravity wells for good reason. So the key technology here is definitely this a hybrid ion/chemical engine they're talking about, but it's performance unfortunately seems mostly theoretical at this point.

436

(1,649 replies, posted in Off Topic)

I'm close to abusing the space nerds thread so I'm posting this here -  it is cool after all  big_smile

437

(346 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Oh I think I know this one  smile

Attaining an orbit is about speed, rather than height. It doesn't matter how high you are in the atmosphere or even above it when you start, your craft still needs to achieve a velocity of about 7 km/s or 15,000 mph to achieve an orbit around earth. Otherwise you just fall back down again. That's a lot of thrust, and if you're launching a lot of weight (which is usually mostly fuel), it's actually easier to start from zero speed on the ground rather than half way up at X speed, where you'd need a very powerful engine to take off and get you going, as it were. The current airspeed record of a jet is the SR-71 blackbird, and that's a 'mere' 2000 mph (according to wiki mind) without carrying something else like a payload. That's a big difference in speed which rockets then need to accomplish, which require substantial fuel, weighing down the plane further. Unfortunately, the business of getting into space is this awful race between engine and weight and the ratio between fuel used and actual payload put in orbit is almost sickening. Unfortunately, our currently most efficient method of thrust needs all that fuel weight to function, as rockets work on the principle of ejecting all that mass to provide acceleration (reaction thrust). It's all horribly inefficient but it's all we have for the moment and in the grand scheme, the 2,000 mph speed boost you'd get from a plane isn't worth it.

Remember, SpaceShipTwo (Virgin's plane) is only suborbital, so it's never attaining the necessary speed to go into orbit (wiki says it's top speed is 4000 km/h) and it's also reasonably lightweight so it doesn't need to hitch a ride on a monster to get into the air for the first leg. The speed difference in this case does make it worthwhile.

I think at the start of the thread I posted about the Skylon spaceplane, which is still in development and involves a special hybrid engine which gets the plane up to around Mach 6 and then starts burning like a rocket. The idea of a SSTO spaceplane has been around for decades, and no-one has really figured out how to make it work. The Skylon people are closest, but it's still years away with many more hours of testing and engineering. It is, in my view, the future and could dramatically change the way we do space.

edit - DAMN YOU TREY!!

438

(346 replies, posted in Off Topic)

No doubt most have seen these already, but a reminder that rockets and getting to space are difficult (if you've played Kerbal Space Program, you'll especially know this!).

The recent Russian Proton M explosion:

And the sound on this amateur video is thunderous.

More Trek. I've actually finished the first series now so going back in time a bit with these.

07 - What Are Little Girls Made Of?
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120917043749/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/6/62/Kirk%27s_stalactite.jpg/574px-Kirk%27s_stalactite.jpg

Kirk and Nurse Chapel beam down to a planet (which seems to be how most of these stories start) where they find a doctor working in an underground network of tunnels. There's a big android (played by the Addams' family guy?) who tosses men to their death and Kirk ends up being duplicated. The doctor plans to create a race of android duplicates and is revealed to be one himself. Cue lots of questions about the nature of man vs machine, and also love between human and thing. I liked Kirk in this one, I find myself drawn to smart characters and he's pretty smart in this one, employing the 'Zarkov tactic' when being mind copied, as he repeats an uncharacteristic anti-Spock outburst that gets imbedded into the duplicate's mind. The duplicate of course later says this to Spock, and thus is revealed to be an imposter. Kirk also uses that wonderful smile of his to confuse the female android, who ends up killing the duplicate version when it doesn't reciprocate the romantic advances she had learned from the real one. That it ends with a realisation that the experiment has failed, and the android doctor ending both himself and the girl, I especially like. Any time Trek ends without all weapons being fired or the Federation punching someone, I like it.

What I remember most about this one is the giant android, who is pretty intimidating and chases after Kirk, but then rescues him from falling. I thought that was an interesting twist, as Kirk, clever as always, had insisted that it be programmed to obey Chapel's orders as well. 

08 -  Miri AKA the One with the Kids
http://images.wikia.com/memoryalpha/en/images/9/93/Onlies.jpg

The crew visit a strangely earth-like planet (re-using another set?) and contract a disease there which kills grown-ups. The remaining inhabitants are kids who aren't particularly helpful until Kirk teaches them a valuable life lesson. There's an interesting dynamic where the crew are working without the aid of the advanced technology but I can't recall much about this one other than Kirk playing a father figure again.

09 - Dagger of the Mind
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110422014241/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/e/ed/Vulcan_mind_meld.jpg/640px-Vulcan_mind_meld.jpg

Kirk beams down to a planet where they're up to something fishy and gets mind probed? I really don't remember this one much. In fact, I suspect that I either fell asleep or lost interest and went to do something else. May have to rewatch this one.

10 - The Corbomite Maneuver
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110329163637/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/d/d1/Enterprise_towards_Fesarius.jpg/640px-Enterprise_towards_Fesarius.jpg

The Enterprise encounters a mysterious and powerful alien, Balok, who threatens them with destruction for trespassing and what follows is a great story with bluffs and twists. It all turns out to be a test and Balok turns out to be a small and friendly being (though badly dubbed!). Some great interplay between Kirk and McCoy in this one, and a new bridge officer that features prominently and then completes his arc by joining Balok (reminds me of Decker in The Motion Picture). The real Balok claims the Enterprise crew wouldn't have been scared of him, but I don't know, I found the crazy dubbed child (played by a young Clint Howard) to be just as unnerving as the fake alien version!

One of my favourites so far (top 5 of the series for sure).

11 - The Menagerie
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110706235446/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/7/7b/Christopher_Pike%2C_The_Menagerie.jpg/603px-Christopher_Pike%2C_The_Menagerie.jpg

Scarred and immobilised, Pike is 'kidnapped' by Spock, who takes over the Enterprise and warps to a planet where the inhabitants will allow him to live free of his disability. Urgh... a double episode clip show using footage from the first pilot, The Cage. I'd seen that already years ago and wasn't terribly impressed, so this left me cold, especially since the wraparound story incorporates the footage awkwardly - the crew just sit down and watch the episode! It's not clear how Pike would live hereafter either, since the transformation is a little more than that shown in the pilot. Pike can't see speak or move after all, which I didn't particularly like the idea of happening off screen. Also there's little to no urgency in the whole affair, despite Spock undergoing court martial and the conceit of their destination being forbidden on pain of death (the Federation executes people?). Spock's whole motivation seems emotionally-driven and illogical, which I'd consider out of character. Pike's feelings remain a mystery, which isn't too bad I guess since you can project what you want onto him.

Thinking about it though, I'd consider this to be the good basis for a movie, in the sense that you can have a injured or dying crewmember on a ship commandeered by his or her friends travelling to a place they shouldn't be going in order to find some way for that person to live again. Add in a pursuit and find a better way to frame the historical background (i.e., the prequel), and I think you have quite a compelling story.

I'm not sure the Lord of Light is any more real than the Seven, isn't it just a darker, more powerful form of magic practiced by his followers vs one that is in transition to science? Certainly Oldtown seems to have been encouraging folks away from magic since the dragons died (with accusations that they were responsible for the death of dragons/magic in the first place). Doesn't Melisandre at one point worry about having enough of a special powder to keep up the woozoo? Which to me was a strong indication that her powers weren't so god-given.

As for Melisandre being evil, I'd say mostly, she's certainly not one of the 'good guys'. You can't go around murdering people in their sleep for any reason really, especially if that reason is 'because they're in my way'. I'm not a believer in the idea that the death of a few in place of many is justified either, since it presupposes the death of the many and absolves the party from seeking alternatives. And Melisandre is anything but compromising, which makes her particularly susceptible to the 'oh, I'll just kill him then' solution. I can't recall if that's her actual attitude towards taking all these lives, but if so, it puts her in the same camp as Tywin with his justification of the Red Wedding. After all, evil people rarely believe they're evil and think what they're doing/have done is right. It makes me wonder at what number of 'sacrificed for the greater good' Melisandre will stop at, because she doesn't seem to be slowing down. That one of the few turns out to be a child makes her cross the line even further. It's not really supported in the text, but I find her choice to be less about fulfilling a prophecy and more about testing/proving the mettle of her chosen saviour. You think she could be pushed to do something horrible? I'd say she's already done it, and with alarming frequency.

Ultimately though, I wonder what Melisandre's plan is here. To stop the ice creatures? She's arguably already got the voodoo, so what does she need to get this done, armed men? If so, then how many? I find it interesting that it's mostly Davos that makes Stannis go to the wall and start the ball really rolling. Would Melisandre have still been in the south waging war and facilitating the death of thousands up to this point had it not been for Davos' insistence? In short, I don't find that much consistency between her actions and her stated goals.

Allison wrote:
redxavier wrote:

As a redhead, it disappoints me that you don't think there's any problem with the way that we're treated. The feelings that lie at the heart of racism, and the victimisation that results, apply for any point of difference, whether it be sexual, racial, cultural or visual. Some differences are more greatly accentuated among certain groups, but that's not to say that no problems exist.

As someone whose family has continually suffered slavery, genocide, systematic rape and sterilization, being chased out of our homeland only to face more institutionalized discrimination, I've gotta say that it disappoints me you think those are analogous with whatever problems (?) face the ginger community.

Wow... just wow.

Allison wrote:
redxavier wrote:

Besides, it's not like GOT has a racial diversity quota to fill.

Yeah, but y'all keep talking about how diverse it is. If you can't name a few POC who aren't anonymous or dead, it's really not. That's my big point.

Out of curiosity, how many "POC", which is frankly an awful term, does it take to make something diverse in your eyes?



As for your textual evidence, you're projecting a lot of it. You've found one racist, and you've equated repetition in the author's writing style to be a prevailing social attitude in Oldtown. What's more, you're omitting a fundamental part of the story that influences every character's opinion of Elia - her husband went for another woman and the realm divided. Every criticism of her stems from their feeling that she failed to keep Rhaegar happy, i.e. she wasn't beautiful enough, she wasn't healthy enough etc., and as a result thousands perished in a bloody war. These same characters then wonder on the suitability of others, usually their local beauty/someone they've admired, in the way one wonders about history happening differently should a few variables be changed. This is far more of an indication of how Westeros views women than skin colour. You've also appeared to have forgotten than the Martells had historically married into the Targaryen family.

You're also grossly cherry-picking or twisting character attitudes to Elia in defence of your projection. Barristan says of her: "Princess Elia was a good woman, Your Grace. She was kind and clever, with a gentle heart and a sweet wit."

That you consider reports of her being weak and delicate as possibly racially motivated is bonkers. Especially since the story states that she bore only two children, both difficult births, and Rhaegar feared for her life enough to go to another woman to have his third 'head of the dragon'. From ADWD:
Elia was never worthy of him. She was frail and sickly from the first, and childbirth only left her weaker.
After the birth of Princess Rhaenys, her mother had been bedridden for half a year, and Prince Aegon’s
birth had almost been the death of her. She would bear no more children, the maesters told Prince
Rhaegar afterward.

Allison wrote:

But it's silly to say that skin color isn't an important aspect of his character. Look at the way people talk about Elia. Look at the way Dornish folk are viewed by the rest of Westeros. Skin color is an important dynamic to discuss when talking about Martells, in the same way gender is an important dynamic to discuss when talking about Catelyn.

I think you're reading between the lines a fair amount here. We have access to the thoughts of a perceptive and observant individual who at no point refers to skin colour when thinking about them. I don't recall Tyrion assessing Oberyn's skin colour as a factor in his ability as a champion for instance. Do you have any examples of Westerosi attitudes towards the Martells/Dornish along the lines of their skin colour? If you could find some, I'd be able to see where this is coming from.

But in their absence, it's like saying that the Tully's hair colour plays a part in their identity. Does it? Well, there's no evidence for it. Which makes for a shaky foundation to be all 'he aint brown enough' on the same level of importance as being fat is for Sam.

Allison wrote:

Eye color and hair color are not really the same as race. I have yet to see people being systematically disenfranchised and devalued because they are brunette instead of ginger, in the real world or Westeros/Essos.

So you see nothing wrong with the fact that prominent red-haired characters are being played by non-redheads, except for the evil Melisandre and the wildling Ygritte?

As a redhead, it disappoints me that you don't think there's any problem with the way that we're treated. The feelings that lie at the heart of racism, and the victimisation that results, apply for any point of difference, whether it be sexual, racial, cultural or visual. Some differences are more greatly accentuated among certain groups, but that's not to say that no problems exist.

Allison wrote:

I will shut up if you can come up with a list of, hm, 10-15 POC on Game of Thrones that a) have names and/or lines and b) have not been killed off unnecessarily, like Dany's handmaids. Currently, it's only think Missandei and Grey Worm. If you count people who died, you've got Drogo and Dany's khas. It's hardly a rainbow coalition.

Why would we want you to shut up? Maybe hold off on the gauntlet slapping though? wink

Besides, it's not like GOT has a racial diversity quota to fill.

Allison wrote:

I'm confused by your differentiation between those types (there are dark Greeks and light Indians?) but either way: Pedro Pascal does not have olive skin. He is of a similar skin tone to all the Western and Northern Westerosi we see.

My point was that there's uncertainty about whether Oberyn is indeed the POC you claim he is. You appear to be stating rather definitively that he is, and I'd dispute that, given that he's explicitly not 'burnt brown' like a sandy Dornishman. I think we can agree olive-skinned is a broad enough description that applies to a wide real-world area. So the outrage that he's not 'brown enough' seems misguided.

Having looked at some pictures of the man via google, he does look lighter in a lot of flash photography. However, as fireproof notes, he can and does appear to be look more Mediterranean in others such as this picture.http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/blog_post_349_width/2012/11/pedro_pascal_burn_notice_a_p.jpg

Allison wrote:

No, I'm concerned that the character is written as a person of color with a naturally dark complexion, which is rarely seen on TV, and they've cast him as a light skinned guy from Orange County. Representation is important, and I'm tired of Hollywood whitewashing roles where race is a central aspect of the character.

I appreciate how you might have a dog in this race, but I think that greatly diminishes the character of Oberyn when you say that, as if there's nothing more to him than his skin colour. Oberyn is a fantastic character because he's Dornish, and GRRM has built up a fascinating and exciting culture and a concept of what that means in terms of behaviour (passionate, fiery, and uninhibited), not because he's coloured. Tyrion's thoughts aren't constantly about his skin colour, so I can't really see how you'd reach that conclusion.

Allison wrote:

tl;dr: It is not that hard to cast brown people in major roles, but for some reason no one does it.

This isn't Hollywood though. It's the UK, where colour-blind casting has been in practice for the last decade or so (see Robin Hood and Merlin for prime examples). I can see how you might be frustrated with the lack of racial diversity in American TV, but that's not the case over here and GOT is no exception.


Out of interest, were you complaining about Xaro's casting? What about Daenerys' eye colour? The Stark kids' hair colour? Because it seems a double standard to be a book purist for some characters and not for others.

Allison wrote:

It is analogous to Spain, but Oberyn is explicitly described as having olive skin and dark hair. Some Dornishmen don't, but he does.

He's described as a salty Dornishman by Tyrion when he first appears. And later we get this description:

All three sorts seemed well represented in Doran’s retinue. The salty Dornishmen were lithe and
dark, with smooth olive skin and long black hair streaming in the wind. The sandy Dornishmen
were even darker, their faces burned brown by the hot Dornish sun. They wound long bright
scarfs around their helms to ward off sunstroke. The stony Dornishmen were biggest and fairest,
sons of the Andals and the First Men, brown-haired or blond, with faces that freckled or burned
in the sun instead of browning.

So whilst he's olive skinned, the fact that there's a darker, burned brown look in Dorne suggests that salty befits a Mediterranean than Arabic or Indian ethnicity.

I can see how you might be concerned that we might missing an opportunity to differentiate racially the Dornish characters from the rest of Westeros. However, I also think if you cast too eastern, you risk confusing the audience as they'd look like the show's version of Dothraki. Then you'd have people wondering why this Dothraki character has popped up in Kings Landing but doesn't know the Khaleesi etc. Besides, they'll likely use costume, accents and mannerisms to accentuate the cultural distinctiveness of the Dornish, rather than relying on real world short-hand like 'hey look, these people are different because they look different!'.

The casting matches the Amok version that have been around since I started reading and for me, Pedro Pascal appears to capture that right amount of supreme confidence and arrogance.
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/d/d9/Oberyn_Martell.jpg

Allison wrote:

Is Xaro from Qarth? I'd assumed he was a merchant prince who had settled there, not a native. In any case, his skin tone is not described in the book (he's just "the bald man") while Oberyn's is.

He's a Quartheen who are described as a pale people, called the Milk Men by the Dothraki, so yes, he's Caucasian. I believe they rewrote his origin in the TV series so that he wasn't a native.


Dorkman wrote:

Protip for my fellow white people: in discussions about representations of race in culture, saying "I don't see the problem" is not only not a good argument, it is a statement of the problem.

Who has said that, or anything remotely similar? Please hold off on the sanctimony for the moment.

I've always considered Dorne to be analogous to Spain, soI think the casting is pretty spot on.

And didn't thhey cast a black actor in a role clearly specified as white in the book (Xaro Xhoan Daxos)? So they've gone both ways so far.

Looking on the Memory Alpha wiki for the pictures has made me aware that the order I'm watching these in may not be the intended order? Anyhoo.

04 - The Naked Time
http://images.wikia.com/memoryalpha/en/images/2/26/Sulu-confronts-BridgeCrew.jpg

Some damn fool touches something that he shouldn't and the whole Enterprise gets infected with magic goop which makes lose their inhibitions or something. He's the first casualty though, so it works out in the end. Eventually alll is corrected. I love how unashamedly dramatic this series is, and this episode takes it further. I'd be remiss if I didn't take this moment to point out how beautiful Nichelle Nichols is in this series. Seeing all these actors, who'd I grown up with only seeing in the movies, all being so young has been a highlight of watching, even though it's been a bit surreal and uncanny - like seeing your parents as 20 somethings. I enjoyed the episode, but I've seen better.

Sulu gets a chance to strut his stuff, and I believe this is the point where he's becoming noticeable as a crewmember. And I guess this is where the nod in Abrams Star Trek comes from.  And Kirk shows his manlove for his ship again. And laments having a beautiful yeoman. I've found Rand to be the least attractive woman on the show so far, which is less of a criticism of her and more of a statement about all the other women they've had on. And we're not even at Mudd's Women yet.

The episode reminds me of the TNG episode, the one where Data and Tasha get it together, which if my hazy memory recalls was also about the crew becoming unhibited and overly emotional. A check reveals it was called The Naked Now... there's a hint there.

05 - The Enemy Within
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110413183818/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/c/c2/James_Kirk%27s_evil_counterpart.jpg/598px-James_Kirk%27s_evil_counterpart.jpg

Kirk beams up from a planet and gets split in two in what is probably the first of many episodes to come in the ST universe about a transporter accident. And there's a dog with a horn attached to his head that also gets split into two, who later gets killed because it apparently can't 'handle getting re-joined'. I was a bit surprised Spock went with that first thought and didn't spend more time at the logic drawing board.

Fascinating episode in the sense that at its heart is a question of identity and the 'duality of man'. Evil Kirk is gloriously OTT, but he's not evil per se, just the part of Kirk that takes what he wants and has the confidence and strength of will to get it, regardless of the feelings of others. What remains of Kirk is an indecisive man unable to command. The only problem I've found in the series so far is that the show is a bit too eager to point out, often repeatedly, the message of the story. So in this one I think we have McCoy saying that we need the darker side of ourselves to complete us and later Kirks say something similar.

06 - Mudd's Women
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110416154914/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/2/2e/Mudd%27s_women.jpg/640px-Mudd%27s_women.jpg

The Enterprise picks up a con man who's pimping for three women who keep their beautiful looks by imbibing these crystal drugs, meanwhile the ship is running low on gas and Kirk tries to negotiate with some miners. One of the women gets cold feet and spills the beans on Mudd's nefarious ways. And then there's some weird placebo thing at the end where real beauty turns out to be from within?  The miners look like they've walked on from a Western, and their lead guy is a bit of an ass until he redeems himself by seeing that the blond woman is ok. And then there's Mudd, who's this sort of Irish character who looks like he walked on from a pirate movie. Were they borrowing costumes from other TV shows?

Not sure what else to say about this one. It was ok. The women are beautiful sure, but the way all the men on the ship are struck dumb is a bit weird to me - especially since they're arguably more beautiful crewmembers!

I think this is the first episode where I noticed the beautiful women are shot with a really soft focus and given a pretty obvious eyelight.

Lastly, what's with this Vulcanian stuff?

447

(39 replies, posted in Off Topic)

I wonder how people would react should aliens ever visit. Fifty years of movies and TV have really messed us up (at least in the western world).

448

(52 replies, posted in Off Topic)

That's gutsy. I like gutsy, we don't get nearly enough of it in today's movies.

449

(29 replies, posted in Creations)

I really liked this. Fascinating and extremely well read. I'm so sorry to hear you went through this, even though your recounting of your experience was very entertaining.

So I'm finally getting around to watching the original series of Star Trek and thought I'd do sort of a mini-review of the episodes as I watch them. Would love to hear others' thoughts too.

01 - The Man Trap AKA The Salt Monster
http://images.wikia.com/memoryalpha/en/images/6/60/Kirk_McCoy_%26_Nancy.jpg

The crew beam down to a planet where they meet a scientist and his wife, an old flame of Dr McCoy. The 'redshirt' gets drawn away by the wife, who appears as a different woman to the men around her, and gets suckered to death because of his salt content. I'm not sure how much salt we have in our bodies, but I can't imagine there being that much. As more crewmen get killed they realise it's the woman and the end is very dramatic, perhaps overly so, with McCoy having to 'kill the woman he loves' before it kills Kirk. The episode does an admirable job at setting up their relationship, so I'd say it's very much earned that he does pull the trigger.

The creature's rather interesting, having assumed the memories of her victims, seemingly sentient and having feelings, but running mostly on instincts and hunger. The last of its kind they say, so there's a sort of tragedy to her fate, which they're all too eager to point out for us as the episode closes.

Two points really, Kirk is very smiley. He really turns on the charm a lot, and it's fascinating for me to see this young Shatner. Sure, he smiles a lot in his recent stuff like Boston Legal but it's quite another thing to see the smile really work for him. And what is up with redshirt not actually wearing a redshirt (something that I'm noticing a lot)?


02 - Charlie X
http://images.wikia.com/memoryalpha/en/images/1/12/Kirk_and_Evans.jpg

The crew take custody of a young man who's spent the better part of his life alone on a planet, the sole survivor of a crash many years before. Except the young man has powers of a godlike being, and he uses them to get what he wants. Kirk fills the role of surrogate father, and manages to control the boy's impetuous whims and infatuation for Yeoman Rand, at least initially. Eventually the boy runs rampant on the Enterprise until the deus ex machina arrives and wisks him away. What I found interesting in this episode, which I actually liked a lot, was Kirk. I'd always thought of him as a punch first ask questions later kind of character, a cowboy. But 2 episodes in and I'm totally re-evaluating that perception. He's measured and seems to be forceful only when it's time. Charlie's pleas at the end are rather hearfelt, and almost make you feel sorry for him. It's quite an unsettling ending too, as you don't really know his fate.

Also, Kirk loves his ship and is fiercely protective of his crew. Gives his action in Search for Spock when he sets the self-destructs an added poignancy (or makes that look really out of character, depending on how lenient you want to be).

03 - Where No Man Has Gone Before
http://images.wikia.com/memoryalpha/en/images/3/35/Kirk_fires_a_phaser_rifle_at_Mitchell.jpg

The Enterprise flies near the edge of the galaxy and two of its crew get turned into superbeings. Loved this episode! It's sort of like Charlie X, but with the added drama of having a friend of Kirk turn bad with the absolute power. Kirk punches and judo throws his way too victory, which is the only downside in my view. I'm not really sure how they manage to kill Mitchell in the end - a big rock falls on him. Apparently this is a second pilot, so the costumes are slightly different and Spock's suggestion that they kill the transformed Mitchell outright is pretty harsh. Another sad ending too, as Kirk's physically victorious but knackered perhaps and mentally defeated. He's lost a good friend.

Finally, that hearbeat monitor thing in sickbay is awesome.