5,226

(219 replies, posted in Off Topic)

He's gonna say games have one or two producers. Fair enough. It's still one composer against one producer. Have fun.

5,227

(219 replies, posted in Off Topic)

I was answering as a poll, not an authority.

I know no things about fighting, remember. I don't see the art, possibly because I'm ignorant, possibly because I'm not inclined to call them an art like I'm currently not inclined to call video games an art. (Remember, I'm working on a video game right now.)

I guess something worth mulling is, do you all find a difference between a creative skill and an art?

5,228

(219 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Can paintings be art? Yes
Can movies be art? No
Can pictures be art? Yes
Are visual effects art? Yes
Are books art? Not sure
Are choose-your own adventure books art? Not sure
Can martial arts be art? Not sure
Are Rude Goldberg machines art? No
Is taxidermy art? No

5,229

(219 replies, posted in Off Topic)

I don't think it is either, in a vacuum. I'm talking about my flawed perception, and like I said up front on this tangent, it might just be that video games are too new and my notion of what "can" be art is flawed.

However, in response to your going back to comparing games to paintings, I re-invoke my thing about maybe it's the difference between one artist and not four hundred. I'd consider cave paintings art before games as a whole. The matte painting in the background of a game is on a level playing field with a cave painting.

5,230

(219 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Possibly. But I'd be the guy saying "guess what you fucking nerd, CoD is Goldeneye with better textures."

And once you get right down to it, Goldeneye is Asteroids in 3D.

And that's fine with me. I like all three. (Save for CoD, which I've never played.)

It's no more or less a game when you advance the technology. It's no more or less a game when you explain why you're (apparently) randomly shooting at the computer. But you play all three to shoot at the computer. Make it pretty if you want to, but I don't think the game will be an evergreen the way the Mona Lisa or Moonlight Sonata is, no matter how much I would destroy all of you in Goldeneye.

5,231

(301 replies, posted in Episodes)

Actually, I think JayHair and Mike will be pleased with our commentary. We're quite fair on the thing.

5,232

(219 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Yep. As I said in the post. wink

5,233

(219 replies, posted in Off Topic)

You know, I can get myself locked up in all these argumentative, hypothetical "proofs" inside of this conversation and agree with basically anything.

At the end of the day, it might just be too recent.

But I don't think of video games as art. Not really. They might be, someone can make a very compelling case. The difference between the least and most artistic games seems too small, compared to the difference between something your kid drew and the Mona Lisa, for anything to be that-much-more artistic than anything else in the game world.

I'll already agree with the dissenters and say there are and can be very artistic games, yes. But I think they're more an emulation of art that has already happened. Once video games find what they're actually good for - not just simulating existing game types or filmic qualities - maybe then can games stretch their legs and become fucking art. Until then, they're just artfully created, by a lot of the same folks who make movies.

I should also go ahead and add now that, I've been thinking about it, and I can't think of a film I'd consider art, either. Beautiful, yes, tangible adjectives, naturally. Same with games. But I have trouble stretching my definition of "art" to include what's going on in the realm of cinema and gaming.

That's just me - but the more I think about it, and I'm not done thinking, the more I think art should be created by an artist, maybe two artists. Not four hundred.

5,234

(219 replies, posted in Off Topic)

I like that definition.

And if I temporarily assume it for the purpose of this conversation, I don't think many games at all - seriously, very few - qualify as art. Most of them are expressly entertainment. Even many of the "cinematic" ones are simply exploiting an artificial emotional response for the purpose of entertainment. And there's a law of diminishing returns.

If we lived in a world with one war game and it was well made, it would be art by way of originality and the experience you have when you play that game. "This game is about war - I know! But it's amazing, you really feel the experience of it, it's totally unique and fascinating."

That's not the world we live in, so even Saving Private Ryan The Game would ultimately feel like a retread.

Using this definition, the abstract games are really the ones to be looking to for examples of art.

5,235

(0 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Tested on iPhones, as yet untested on everything else - if you're using a smartphone for web browsing, might as well use it for Down in Front.

Hit up m.downinfront.net for an iPhone-friendly version of the site. And report bugs.

5,236

(219 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Nope, that's why I'm saying I can see their ability to disconnect it from art status because you're playing it and "making it happen," as opposed to passively appreciating it.

I disagree, natch.

5,237

(219 replies, posted in Off Topic)

I dunno, I can see where he's coming from, because I came from there as recently as this morning. He does seem to be painting with an exceedingly large brush, though, one I wouldn't have chosen over another, smaller brush, with a bit more finesse.

However, I disagree with even that part of me, so now I'm in the camp of "games can be art, I'm not aware of many that are, and I'd like to see more." Not that I play games. I very rarely do.

In terms of a definition, I think it's important to realize the difference between artistic integrity and pop culture influence. The meta-art of changing society with a game, like our friend Mario has done, is one that I appreciate fully.

In terms of artistic integrity, the games I tend to respect as Works of Art are often more abstract. I've seen Brian playing a Wii game that resembles flying through a 2001-esque tunnel and it plays different tones when you do different things. I'd call that art as a conglomeration of visuals, sound, and interactivity. Sort of like Tone Matrix.

However, I can see reason in the argument that games heavily reliant on cinematic story can be art, too. Art in terms of storytelling. However, if we're thinking of games as either Art or Not, and games that function mostly as a form of entertainment as Not (shoot 'em ups), I wonder if the "art" happened before the game was even released, let alone purchased and played. It was written artfully, and now you're just playing through it, akin to "just" watching a movie. After that point, I haven't figured out how I feel. Can making a game out of your artful story be artful in and of itself?

Well, I guess so. Seems like it could. Making a movie out of your artful story can.

I still prefer Guitar Hero and Wii Bowling to Portal. But Portal is fucking awesome, and artful, and there ya go.

/my two cents

5,238

(68 replies, posted in Episodes)

This point is good.

5,239

(68 replies, posted in Episodes)

We can do five folks on the board without splitting mics between multiple people, but on a movie where everyone has something to say at every moment, like Serenity, five folks trying to get air time might be more pain than its worth to listen to.

5,240

(68 replies, posted in Episodes)

*waves* Hi Zarban.

5,241

(2,061 replies, posted in Episodes)

Chinatown and Rush Hour are great suggestions.

5,242

(14 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Check your email.

5,243

(14 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Wow. If the wider forum doesn't screw it up when you view it with the left DIF bar (bottom picture), I'm happy to adopt that style.

5,244

(14 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Screengrab?

5,245

(208 replies, posted in Episodes)

I'm working in the building where they're trying to finally make the movie, in all the wrong ways. If it is Neuromancer, I won't torment you by telling you the things I know.

5,246

(208 replies, posted in Episodes)

I wanna know the book.

5,247

(0 replies, posted in Creations)

Our sister site NP2k (not to be confused with our nerdy brother site TFN) is throwing its first film festival in five years, wherein entrants all make a short film under the same circumstances and they're pitted against each other in some sort of a cage match.

I'm doing one, Brian's doing one, Emfayder might do one, Harbin is doing one...this is hardly enough. So if you're interested in making a thing, check it out over there and join up.

Re-post of the rules after the...jump? After this fucking line.

____________________________________


STEP ONE. Commitment. Don't sign up if you're not going to finish what you've started. The last film festival we ran here had lower than 1/3rd completion rate. (yes, even I was to blame for one of those failed projects).


STEP TWO. Officially announce that you will be directing a short film for the festival. This doesn't necessarily mean you have to write or edit it. It means that you have to direct it. You can officially enter by simply replying to this contest with an "I'm in as a director." THERE IS AN ENTRY FEE OF $10 USD - ALL ENTRY FEE monies will go 100% directly to the "Best Director" prize and "Audience Choice" award. More importantly, it will act as a reminder to finish what you've started!!!

Once you've declared your interest in entering the film fest, we will contact you on how to submit your $10 USD entry fee. Your entry fee IS NON-REFUNDABLE and will be kept as prize money whether or not your project is finished.

Outsiders of the film fest whom do not want to direct, may post their interests as writer, editor, etc, etc.... Directors are allowed free reign over crafting their above & below the line crew, with the exception of the PEER that will be assigned to them (see step 4).


STEP THREE. Between now and May 1st, craft a few ideas for a short film. Think about what you want to make, and create a logline & synopsis for each. You can come up with as many as you'd like, one or more, but keep in mind you will have to pitch this idea to.... See next step.


STEP FOUR. On Saturday, May 1st, we will randomly assign you a PEER - someone whom you will share details of your project. Your Peer will be a fellow NP2ker that has either a.) joined as a director, or b.) announced their interest as a writer/producer/actor, etc, etc, etc. This peer will be an exec. producer on your project.

Once each Director has been assigned a peer, it is the Director's job to pitch their ideas to their Peer. It is the Peer's job to act as a voice of reason. What does this mean, exactly? Well, as a Peer, it will be your job to make sure the Director isn't getting into something over their heads. Is your director trying to make a huge action sequence with no money? It's your job to tell them. Ultimately a director can choose to ignore their peer, or you can request a new peer if you feel yours is not applying enough pressure on you to get work done.

The Peer concept is important for a couple basic reasons:

a.) it ensures us that you're making the project specifically for the NP2k Fest and not using something you've already made.

b.) it creates a creative bounceback for the directors to listen to. The peer will also help push you along and help you meet deadlines. That's the peer's ultimate job.

When a project appears to be in trouble, NP2k will contact both the Director and the Peer first, to get details. If we feel the Peer is not doing their job, NP2k will replace them. This is bound to happen on at least a couple projects.


STEP FIVE. Write your script. You'll have until May 29th (11:59pm) to do so. That's basically a MONTH to write something roughly 4 to 20 pages in length. It's not rocket science, you can do it. Projects can be HOWEVER LONG YOU WANT THEM TO BE. We're not going to limit your creative abilities, but we will tell you if we think you're shooting too high. FINAL SCRIPTS MUST BE SUBMITTED TO: chadpeter@hotmail.com - Please send in .pdf format. PLEASE DO NOT START FILMING UNTIL YOU'VE SUBMITTED YOUR FINAL SCRIPT AND RECEIVED APPROVAL FROM BOTH YOUR PEER AND NP2k.


STEP SIX. Submit a schedule to your peer & NP2k. This is for your own good. you don't have to stick to your schedule, but it will help set a timeline in your head. We hope that subconsciously you will stick to it. Once NP2k has received your schedule, you may start filming. IF A SCHEDULE HASN'T BEEN RECEIVED BY JUNE 8th, your project will be removed from the festival.


STEP SEVEN. CAST YOUR PROJECTS from your local talent pool. Please don't cast your friends, unless they're actors. There are amateur actors EVERYWHERE, trying to build a reel so that they can carve a career for themselves. They want to find you. Please be sure to ultimately provide them with a COPY OF YOUR FILM! Receiving copy is an actor's LIFEBLOOD. Denying them of that means you will go to hell.


STEP EIGHT. Shoot your damn movie. You have until Monday, July 5th to finish filming. That gives you ultimately TWO MONTHS to write a script and film it. Seems like a lot of time, but it will FLY BY.


STEP NINE. Projects are due July 21st, 2010. Please send a link of an H264 encoded HD-quality quicktime (100% of source size) to chadpeter@hotmail.com - arrangements can be made if you're unable to find hosting for your file.


STEP TEN. Give us a week to review and post the films one by one on NP2k/TF.N/ETC. Public voting will take place after all films have been reviewed by the public. A "Best Director" prize (1/2 prize money) and "Audience Choice" award (1/2 prize money) will be given, in addition to an NP2k-first "Best Actor" & "Best Actress" prize. The "Audience Choice" award will not act as an audience "favorite film", but rather a maliable reward for a publically nominated job (example, "Best editing in film #3", or "Best Cinematography in film #2". This allows for excellence at random skill positions to be recognized. Actors & directors can also be awarded the "Audience Choice" award, even if they've won the "Best Director" or "Best Actor" prizes as well.)

5,248

(208 replies, posted in Episodes)

Hey, that's prejudiced again!

5,249

(208 replies, posted in Episodes)

*tear*

5,250

(208 replies, posted in Episodes)

Welcome to the boards!