Personally, given the scifi elements that they have built in to their RvB series on, it is not just that they are doing it, but that they have experience with both comedy and sci-fi, so it gives me encouragement.

Also, I'm not saying that this shows a great public outcry for more sci-fi. I'm saying it is an original sci-fi concept, with the potential to do well, or lay the groundwork for more movies.

Color me optimistic

I'm not disagreeing that the film is broken. That is not my point. More to my point is the idea that there might be a message that is being missed due to the adult perspective. Now, I think Eddie made the point that with kids having a more straight forward narrative is more beneficial as kids can follow it better. And Brave does not follow that rule. There is no argument there.

My question is more of an academic exercise of "Ok, if I'm a kid, would I see this differently?" I certainly am careful of what my daughters watch but that doesn't mean I apply the rules of film criticism to determine if they can watch a movie.

However, I will also freely concede that I have no problem bringing my own concrete to movies and am more dismissive of movies were the characters fail rather than the overall narrative structure.

Well put, CP! I was trying to figure out a good response, since I think Mulan is one of the more admirable Disney movies out there. Your response is excellent, and connects the sequel in a way that I agree with. I like seeing the inspiration that Mulan has among the young girls, as well as the inspiration she has on the others around her. She is not just exceptional because of what she does; she is exceptional because she inspires others.

I would be curious to hear your defense of Little Mermaid. I don't always consider it anti-feminist, but it is not my favorite film either. In order to not derail this thread, feel free to PM anything you have written prior. I am very curious now

Didn't someone just comment about how studios are using practical again because CGI has become so cheap?

Or am I imagining things again?

Also, The Amazing Spider-Man (not sure about 2) did several practical web slings instead of using CGI.

Despite it's problems, as far as Disney goes, Mulan is probably my favorite, followed closely by Lilo and Stitch.

Mulan 2 certainly is not perfect, but worth at least one watch.

I mostly cringe at the far more Western influences on both movies. So, I certainly understand that.

I know you asked Doc, but I will throw this out there (especially being a recent movie I've watched with my daughters) is Mulan. When the panelists were discussing this, that was the first example that came to my mind, because it is one where we have a female lead who makes her own choices and has to weather the consequences.

Pocahontas (another recent watch) is a little bit a long the same lines, though I think Mulan is a better example. However, Pocahontas and Mulan have a similar break with tradition theme that demonstrates an interesting societal commentary as well as the free agency of female leads.

Brave, for all it's beauty, is a bit, bi-polar (for want of a better descriptor) in terms of Merida's agency and the message it communicates. In one instance, she is trying to control her fate and the other is she is trying to respect tradition (insert Fiddler on the Roof image here). As the panelists pointed out, it comes to a conclusion, but in a way that doesn't really flow with the rest of the story.

Frozen has a similar problem but the message comes through much more clearly, even if the story is a bit of a mess. I think that Frozen and Brave are on a similar footing, but the message was easier for me to discern than Brave. This is another reason I prefer UP or Wall-E over Brave. While the story telling is a bit lacking, I can still discern a message.

In my opinion, I have no problem with Merida, or Anna and Elsa (from Frozen) and I don't think these ladies are bad characters. They are just in poorly developed stories with an unclear message or poor delivery.

Teague really didn't get Chronicles of Riddick. I don't think we need to confuse him further

Yes, but can you sing the songs by heart? That is the question

Edit (post episode listening):

This was a great episode and one of my favorites in recent months (sorry, the whole Harry Potter thing burned me out. I'm sure I'm not the only one).

This movie is, well, like the Nitro character from Down Periscope. He is always short of wiring and uses himself to fix it, resulting in electrocution. I trust you see the connection

I really enjoyed the fixes postulated by everyone, and a tip of the hat to Jimmy B, for providing some exposition on Scotland. Really love the fact that this forum has people from around the world to provide that information. It gives a lot more depth than I think just rattling off facts would.

I think my biggest gripe with this movie is that it could have been so much more. That there was the potential for a very strong, positive message in here, ala Mulan, but without a coherent world, much less a story, the message feels kind of deus ex machina, except, via bear. There were so many missed opportunities here, that it is sad to think of them all.

A couple of fixes, just as sort of a stream of consciousness as I was listening and thinking:

The whole bear thing-this is kind of inspired by Tolkien who came up with ideas like the legends of elves and things, and the idea of a mythology that led to those legends. In a similar vain, why are there no bears in Scotland? Well, because the king slew them all, but to kill the last one was to bring a curse on the family, so then you have the journey to the witch and an explanation of how to end the curse. Work in progress, sorry.

Overall, good work, gents!

You have come to right place for advice.

The city's new tourism slogan, right there.

I can think of one with Beautician and the Beast, with Fran Drescher, so dating it a bit there

There is also "It takes Two" with the Olsen twins. Camp counselor falls in love with camp's owner/telcom exec.

Not sure if it counts, since it isn't exactly a subversion, but "For Richer, For Poorer," is a different dynamic of riches to (relative) rags to riches again.

That's all I've got.

Please note, and I doubled checked my post, but sorry for misunderstanding, I said it was done with Avengers, I did not say it worked or that it was a perfect system. My point was that was a trend that I saw in comic book movies, and was not surprised by the X-Men series. Again, for me, it creates a context that is larger than the characters, a whole world that might be new to some people (i.e. people who have not read the comics, or are only passingly familiar with X-men, Spider-Man, or Blade).

I will agree with the no end-game problem, but that is a frustration for me of comic books overall. Applying a similar concept to film does not, as Vapes noted, work if you are doing a film series. A TV series is better suited to that type of format.

Is the endless string of films the frustrating part? I am trying to understand the negative view of the franchise and right now, I do not understand.