Re: Star Wars VII: The Force Awakens Trailer (Spoilers)

Invid wrote:

Given all the other influences in the original movie, I'd say the Jedi are Samurai and the light swords are more like katana's. "A more elegant weapon."

I'm not saying that isn't how they ended up, but the original conception of the "laser sword" was more of a broad sword, being very "heavy" and easier to wield with two hands rather than one. Again, this is what it started out as-obviously, what it ended up as deviates quite a bit.

I think the milieu of influences in Star Wars, there is a lot that can be seen emerging in the finished product. smile

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Re: Star Wars VII: The Force Awakens Trailer (Spoilers)

Japanese Katana's are used with two hands. You don't duel with broadswords smile

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Re: Star Wars VII: The Force Awakens Trailer (Spoilers)

Squiggly_P wrote:

acrobats doing a Cirque Du Soleil act with glowsticks.

Oh but dude. You have no idea how hard I would watch the shit out of that show.

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Re: Star Wars VII: The Force Awakens Trailer (Spoilers)

Invid wrote:

Japanese Katana's are used with two hands. You don't duel with broadswords smile

Well, I was trying to simplify it but thank you for the correction big_smile

I more meant how the sabers were supposed to feel, and be treated in the original  concept. It was more broadsword than strict katana.

I think that's what I meant-my brain is fried

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Re: Star Wars VII: The Force Awakens Trailer (Spoilers)

fireproof78 wrote:

I more meant how the sabers were supposed to feel, and be treated in the original  concept. It was more broadsword than strict katana.

Sorry fireproof, but nope. They are katanas. Most of the fighting in the original was kendo. Watch 'The Hidden Fortress' and you'll understand better that A New Hope is a samurai movie. Also, watch it because it is awesome.

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Re: Star Wars VII: The Force Awakens Trailer (Spoilers)

Jp12x wrote:
fireproof78 wrote:

I more meant how the sabers were supposed to feel, and be treated in the original  concept. It was more broadsword than strict katana.

Sorry fireproof, but nope. They are katanas. Most of the fighting in the original was kendo. Watch 'The Hidden Fortress' and you'll understand better that A New Hope is a samurai movie. Also, watch it because it is awesome.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Nnhitd4phew/UtiMVeULknI/AAAAAAAAAaQ/iavghdQsby0/s1600/fortress2.jpg

Please, bear in mind, that I am talking about Lucas' original conceptions for the story, and not what was portrayed in the films. I'm not arguing that what eventually happened on film was not kendo, having studied kendo, and watched 7 Samurai for inspiration.

I doubt I am saying it exactly how I mean, so I might just stop while I'm not ahead. wink

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Re: Star Wars VII: The Force Awakens Trailer (Spoilers)

Well, given the original treatment was even MORE like Hidden Fortress, I will politely disagree smile Lucas was really into Japanese films at the time, so those were a major influence. Broadswords would never come to my mind looking at what he happily admits to borrowing from. Hell, apart from Excalibur, I can't think of where I've seen them used in a movie.

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Re: Star Wars VII: The Force Awakens Trailer (Spoilers)

I don't have any sources available, but I'm pretty sure I've seen quotes somewhere saying that the sabers in the OT were intended to be rather broadswordish.

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Re: Star Wars VII: The Force Awakens Trailer (Spoilers)

I dimly recall Mark Hamil comments on Empire of Dreams or one of the main documentaries that the feeling was that they had weight (possibly in the context of the prequels, where they have no weight) but that doesn't necessarily mean broadswords... as broadswords aren't any actually heavier or slower than katanas.

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Re: Star Wars VII: The Force Awakens Trailer (Spoilers)

Invid wrote:

Hell, apart from Excalibur, I can't think of where I've seen them used in a movie.

Braveheart, I think. More relevant, I think there is a broadsword duel in Mel Gibson's Hamlet. I could be thinking of another movie, though. Or, the wrong kind of sword.

As for 'original intentions' Lucas has claimed to have started the story in his early teens. It's been through countless revisions (and many of his claims have changed too may times for me to believe anything he says) but the earliest full treatments I have seen/heard of were near-exact copies of The Hidden Fortress: same plot, same characters (the General was Starkiller). And, the Vader/Obi-Wan fight is kendo. It is one of only two duels in the OT and Vader/Luke is also heavy with kendo.

That said, who cares if there's a broadsword now? I only question the crossguard because no one in 6 movies needed one...

Also, a quick look at Wiki says broadsword basically just means "not a rapier": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basket-hilted_sword

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Re: Star Wars VII: The Force Awakens Trailer (Spoilers)

Jp12x wrote:
Invid wrote:

Hell, apart from Excalibur, I can't think of where I've seen them used in a movie.

Braveheart, I think. More relevant, I think there is a broadsword duel in Mel Gibson's Hamlet. I could be thinking of another movie, though. Or, the wrong kind of sword.

As for 'original intentions' Lucas has claimed to have started the story in his early teens. It's been through countless revisions (and many of his claims have changed too may times for me to believe anything he says) but the earliest full treatments I have seen/heard of were near-exact copies of The Hidden Fortress: same plot, same characters (the General was Starkiller). And, the Vader/Obi-Wan fight is kendo. It is one of only two duels in the OT and Vader/Luke is also heavy with kendo.

That said, who cares if there's a broadsword now? I only question the crossguard because no one in 6 movies needed one...

Also, a quick look at Wiki says broadsword basically just means "not a rapier": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basket-hilted_sword

Well, I didn't mean for it to escalate this far. I'm not saying that it wasn't kendo, just the origination of the concept of the saber, which drew from multiple sources. For the sake of repetition, I am not saying the duels in the OT are broadsword based. Not at all.

I have done research on the origins of Star Wars as well as similarities to other films. Sorry if I got my sources mixed up.

I've heard the idea that the new saber's extensions are saber vents for an unstable blade. I think Tom mentioned that too (yep, he did: http://friendsinyourhead.com/forum/view … 6#p54096). Also, had some time today and read a Cracked article about outraged fan reactions to the trailer: http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/the- … s-trailer/

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Re: Star Wars VII: The Force Awakens Trailer (Spoilers)

Vents make little sense to me, especially since lightsabres are a familar technology (why would it be unstable?). It's a sword and swords have guards.

I love the fact that the design intent appears to be 'if Jedi are samurai, then this new sect are european knights'.

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Re: Star Wars VII: The Force Awakens Trailer (Spoilers)

redxavier wrote:

Vents make little sense to me, especially since lightsabres are a familar technology (why would it be unstable?).

Plot speculation would be that by the end of Return of the Jedi, only Luke knew how to make an official, up to code Jedi saber. Anyone coming to the force on their own, without a master (as the original Jedi obviously did) would be hacking together an original saber design.

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Re: Star Wars VII: The Force Awakens Trailer (Spoilers)

That's interesting to consider I'll admit. How did Luke make his I wonder? Are we to imagine that ghost ObiWan was giving instructions? Not the kind of on the job training that's safe!

But I thought

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this was maybe an ancient sect of Force users rather a new one?

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Re: Star Wars VII: The Force Awakens Trailer (Spoilers)

redxavier wrote:

That's interesting to consider I'll admit. How did Luke make his I wonder? Are we to imagine that ghost ObiWan was giving instructions? Not the kind of on the job training that's safe!

But I thought

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this was maybe an ancient sect of Force users rather a new one?

We don't know (or, at least, those of us ignoring spoilers don't know). That would, however, imply

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it's an ancient design of light saber.

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Re: Star Wars VII: The Force Awakens Trailer (Spoilers)

Since Disney has thrown out the expanded universe, maybe. The expanded universe old tech was lightsabers that had belt-mounted batteries.

There is a deleted scene of Luke making his lightsaber. Was Obi-wan there? I can't recall. Regardless, the color suggests Sith and the Sith are the ones who experiment (caveat:expanded universe info). I would guess a new design rather than an ancient one.

Last edited by Jp12x (2014-12-18 04:30:57)

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Re: Star Wars VII: The Force Awakens Trailer (Spoilers)

Jp12x wrote:

Since Disney has thrown out the expanded universe, maybe. The expanded universe old tech was lightsabers that had belt-mounted batteries.

There is a deleted scene of Luke making his lightsaber. Was Obi-wan there? I can't recall. Regardless, the color suggests Sith and the Sith are the ones who experiment (caveat:expanded universe info). I would guess a new design rather than an ancient one.

Spoilered just in case, with speculation and content from Shadows of the Empire novel.

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I think it was in the novelization for Shadows of the Empire, when Luke first constructed his new saber. He found a journal in Obi-Wan's hut on Tatooine and used those schematics to build his saber.

A scene was also supposed to be included in the ROTJ film of Luke in a cave assembling his saber, and putting it in to R2 before the droids go to see Jabba. 'Twas cut but included on the latest Blu-Ray, I believe.

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Re: Star Wars VII: The Force Awakens Trailer (Spoilers)

This is one of the ways the prequels made the OT make less sense.  The OT suggests that Jedi were rare, mysterious, even just a myth to some people (Han Solo, for one).   Then the prequels declared that just 20 years earlier they were like the UN - there were hundreds of them getting up in everyone's bizness, and they even had an office building in the galaxy's equivalent of downtown.   In that reality, light sabers wouldn't be much of a mystery either.  Heck, you can still find a working Commodore 64 in our world, if you want one.

Re: Star Wars VII: The Force Awakens Trailer (Spoilers)

And, while on the subject, in AotC, the rescuing Jedi just happened to carry extra sabers, so they're probably not really that hard to come by, as there's apparently a surplus.

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