I thought your discussion was good, and interesting to listen to.  But I have to disagree and say video games are art because they have the ability to communicate a story through characters, plot, conflicts, settings and journeys. When playing a video game, even though a player's experience may differ from another's the same story can still be communicated. Like telling a story over again, the story itself will change slightly, but the same theme and idea can come across.  I think even when watching a movie, or looking at a painting, what a person takes away from that experience can differ wildly from person to person, depending on what one has experienced in their lifetime.  Something can stay art, even if the experience of that thing changes.

Thanks for the discussion, gentlemen. I look forward to your post next week.

^^^ Ya, I agree with Doc Sub. 5 years ago I would've said video-games can't be art, but the new indie wave of the last few years has really turned me around on this. The way Braid wraps up, shifting your entire perspective on the idea of a story protagonist, is a perfect example of using game mechanics to convey a thematic idea. I think Trey has it right when he says that video games are still in their infancy and their artistic potential is only starting to be tapped.

very interesting episode!  Jeffrey is a great addition to the panel.  I'd love to hear a Trey/Jeffrey/Dorkman panel.  The three of them are so articulate it would be like smooth hot chocolate in the morning.  I don't have many conversations like this very often either.  I think I'd get along well with you guys in RL, but I'm quite an introvert.

I <3 ARMA, and the original Op. Flashpoint.

Fun discussion, but all these words have long-held definitions, and the new kid in town fits in pretty easily.

Art is anything made primarily to entertain rather than to educate or have other utilitarian purpose. Most art ever made was sold for commercial gain, so that has nothing to do with it. Interactivity has been a goal of artists for decades if not centuries, so that has nothing to do with it.

Therefore, video games ARE art—but that DOESN'T include Pong or computer chess or checkers because those things primarily take their form in order to play the game, which is to say they have utility. But most modern video games primarily take the form they do because that's what the makers wanted for the overall entertainment experience.

By why get hung up on "art"? Why isn't it enough for something to be a fine piece of "craftsmanship"? Craftsmen produce things that primarily have utilitarian purpose but which require artistic sensibility in addition to technical know-how (separating it from a "tradegood" made by tradesmen). Examples are technical illustrations, furniture, fine knives and handguns, and fancy clocks. Even acting is called a craft because it takes its form primarily in service to the overall work of art.

People seem to think that if something is not "art" then it's a dull, mundane tool because the vast majority of things we encounter take their form only in order to work. Being the exception to that is probably the main reason that Apple has so many fans.