Topic: Dear Zachary, you are going to cry.

This is the most gut wrenching, heart breaking movie I have ever seen.

My wife and I put this on our Netflix list because we're fans of Law & Order: SVU thinking this was a documentary about a crime and a courtroom case involving a child and (spoilers) the murder of his father. However, what we got was the saddest story I have ever experienced. This movie is so sad and tragic that I almost regret watching it. I'm hoping by discussing it on this forum it will be a kind of therapy to help me through the trauma from watching this film.

Also, it probably didn't help that I have a 10 month old son.

"Back to the Future is great, and if you disagree then you're Hitler." -Dorkman
"You sucking is canon!" -Brian

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Re: Dear Zachary, you are going to cry.

This documentary has been like a sadness virus spreading throughout our circle of friends. I think I was the last one infected, so I think it's up to me to pass it on to someone else.

Re: Dear Zachary, you are going to cry.

I don't think I'm a very good judge of documentaries.  However, I think it goes without saying that this one has a deep emotional impact, but does that mean its good? Its this film a good movie because it makes me sad?
I guess if I were to come up with criteria for what makes a good documentary is one that conveys its message clearly and gets its point across.  I think this film does that.

"Back to the Future is great, and if you disagree then you're Hitler." -Dorkman
"You sucking is canon!" -Brian

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Re: Dear Zachary, you are going to cry.

Well, the first thing I think about with documentaries is their purpose. Typically, you can assume a Ken Burns documentary has an honest purpose: to shed light on some cultural or historical item and flesh out the stuff you may not have thought about before. Also typically, you can assume a Michael Moore documentary has an agenda based on the filmmaker's opinions, and its purpose is to disseminate them.

Thusly I sort of break down documentaries into two umbrella categories: essays and persuasive essays. Neither inherently better than the other, but I tend to like the straightforward "essay" type documentaries more than the alternative - even though, frankly, it's a hazy distinction. For instance, I wouldn't immediately think to put King of Kong in the "persuasive" column with Bowing for Columbine, but I do wonder if Billy Mitchell is the utter prick he appears to be in the movie. It seems conveniently dastardly, and while the documentary could be completely honest, I have no way of knowing if they're playing an angle on me. Hazy. And even if they are, is that enough to put it in with the likes of Super Size Me or Sicko?

We might need to bring in the Doty guns on that one.

On the subject of Dear Zachary, I would describe it as a very compelling, slightly cheesy documentary, obviously incredibly dear to the filmmaker's heart - but occasionally to the detriment of the story its trying to tell. He gets a little too pissed off in the edit - not in his opinion of the situation, which you'd completely expect and understand, but in the actual film. He's a little punchy and color correcty and TLC cold case murder special-y about it in the gut wrenching montage bits, that I think was a decision made because he felt the best way to get you to agree with him was to trick you with an editing style that he thinks will make you the saddest, instead of just laying it out there. (For the record, the latter would have worked just as well for me.)

The triumph of Dear Zachary, as a viewing experience, is in his structure for telling you the story and the absolute horror of the sucker punch it brings up later. (Y'all know, if you've seen it.) That, as a delivery mechanism, is what makes this so unbearably sad. Anything above and beyond that feels a bit disingenuous to me.

Ultimately, whatever. It's nitpicking. I look forward to seeing where this thread goes, and in the mean time, here's a list of some of my favorite documentaries.

Exit Through The Gift Shop (at the very least an exercise in satire with the documentary form, if not legit history)
King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters
The Bridge
Helvetica (this is a font bias, the film itself isn't particularly special)
Man on Wire
F for Fake (again with the "not-sure-how-much-but-fuck-it" uncertainty, with additional Orsony Wellesy goodness)

I'm forgetting just as many right now, but I guess that truly means these are my favorites. I think I've fully exhausted (and maintained an exhaustion) on the documentaries section of Netflix for the last couple of years.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Dear Zachary, you are going to cry.

Documentaries work best the less you yourself know about the subject: if they can provide all the context you have then you tend to accept their facts and conclusions. Even the best will gloss over things or leave out some detail that you might think was the entire point. Hmm, I'm going to have to see if I can track down The Panama Deception to see if its take on Bush 1's invasion of Panama holds up 20 years later.

F for Fake would be an interesting one for you guys to do.

I write stories! With words!
http://www.asstr.org/~Invid_Fan/

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Re: Dear Zachary, you are going to cry.

Yeah, I watched this one as a direct result of Teague and another DIF-er (Michael maybe) Twitter-ing about it.   "Hmm, it's on Netflix Instant, might as well see what this is abou - "  BOOM.

Two things about it that especially struck me - first, the sorta-main character (who isn't Zachary, but it'll all make sense if you see it) was a guy just like a lot of us here - he made fan-films for pete's sake.    I related to the story on a very personal level that way.

The other thing - and I give the filmmaker credit for this, even though I can't say I ENJOYED it - is that even though it's a real-life story, the way the story gets told makes it a perfect example of the "surprising yet inevitable" conclusion.   I didn't see the ending coming at all, but then immediately realized that I should have.   And it was the same for the people who actually lived it, so the movie actually gives you a sense of what it was like for them.   

So in the end, DZ is just a filmmaker telling a very personal story because he simply had to get it out somehow.    You don't come away from it thinking "Yes, that's a messed-up thing and we need to do something about it!"  because there really isn't anything to be done in this case.    It's just a documentary in the purest sense of the word - a visual document, a record of a thing that happened.  But damn, that's all it needed to be.

Re: Dear Zachary, you are going to cry.

Trey wrote:

because there really isn't anything to be done in this case.

Except watch out for the crazies a little more, perhaps.

Re: Dear Zachary, you are going to cry.

I almost watched that a while back when netflix was aggressively insisting that I would love it every time I logged on. "Dude, you are so gonna love this movie. We think you'd rate it like 4.5 stars. You HAVE to watch this." But the description sounded so dull, and there are very few documentaries that manage to keep up a decent pace for a couple hours and don't resort to padding and shit, so I never watched it. But since you guys said it's good, I watched it.

And now I don't know how to feel. As a documentary it's fucking amazing. The content in the movie makes me feel really bad about saying anything positive about it, tho, cause I'd honestly rather the thing had never had to get made in the first place.

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Re: Dear Zachary, you are going to cry.

I just watched The Way We Get By the other day and literally sat there shaking with tears almost the entire time from juuuust about every different emotion a person can feel, including several I didn't know could move me to tears.  It was simultaneously the most draining and invigorating experience of my life.  I dunno if I'm ready for another "oh this is on Netflix streaming might as well check it OOOOOH GOD" experience like that.

Last edited by Kyle (2011-06-21 11:22:01)

When.

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Re: Dear Zachary, you are going to cry.

Teague wrote:

Well, the first thing I think about with documentaries is their purpose. Typically, you can assume a Ken Burns documentary has an honest purpose: to shed light on some cultural or historical item and flesh out the stuff you may not have thought about before. Also typically, you can assume a Michael Moore documentary has an agenda based on the filmmaker's opinions, and its purpose is to disseminate them.

Thusly I sort of break down documentaries into two umbrella categories: essays and persuasive essays. Neither inherently better than the other, but I tend to like the straightforward "essay" type documentaries more than the alternative - even though, frankly, it's a hazy distinction. For instance, I wouldn't immediately think to put King of Kong in the "persuasive" column with Bowing for Columbine, but I do wonder if Billy Mitchell is the utter prick he appears to be in the movie. It seems conveniently dastardly, and while the documentary could be completely honest, I have no way of knowing if they're playing an angle on me. Hazy. And even if they are, is that enough to put it in with the likes of Super Size Me or Sicko?

We might need to bring in the Doty guns on that one.

I like your attempt at vivisecting the documentary form, and you admit its not an exact science.  I would say there are no inherit brands of doc's, only genre's.  The real truth is that anytime you start editing the words of something somebody says, you are altering the reality.  The degree to which you do it is what makes the difference between KB's "The Civil War" and "Bowling for Columbine."  Its important to remember that even with "Essay," type docs that its not unmitigated truth.  There are several historians who take umbrage to KB's work, even though there is no manipulation immediately apparent.

All the Essay's I wrote in HS and college weren't devoid of opinion or perspective.  In fact, they depended on it.  Having an objective point of view, a voice, is necessary and I would dare say unavoidable.  How heavy the hand is with the filmmaker's opinion is what separates an investigation into something (an event, person, subject, etc) versus a polemic (Im Michael Moore and this is why I'm right!). 

So, I would breakdown documentary genre's into as such:

Observational:
Observing a person or an event for a set period of time, exploring ideas, themes, and feelings, while following a character, or characters, arc.  Usually told in real time, as it was filmed.
Hoop Dreams
Twist of Faith
Overnight
Eileen: Portrait of a Serial Killer
Paradise Lost
The Staircase
Confessions of a Superhero
King of Kong
Woodstock
The War Room
E-Dreams

Reflective First Person
A doc about a person, place, or event that was in the past, told from the perspective of the subject in question, or those directly involved with it/them.  Can use archive footage or recreations to elucidate the past.
The Brandon Teena Story
Dogtown and Z-Boys
Capturing the Friedmans
Hearts of Darkness
The Fog of War
Standard Operating Procedure
Enron: Smartest Guys in the Room.
Dear Zachary
Party Monster
Z Channel
We Live in Public
Girl 27
When the Levees Broke
Waking Sleeping Beauty
Kurt and Courtney

Reflective Third Person
Covering a person, place, or event in the past but completely objective in that no one directly involved participated.
The Civil War
Baseball
Cropsey
Jazz
Waco: Rules of Engagement
most historical documentaries

Biographical
Covering one person or group of persons lives.  Story is second to character as there is not always a clear arc that a storyline takes place over.  Rather, this is just
The Kid Stays in the Picture
Mr. Death
Roman Polanski: Wanted and Desired
The Cruise
The Boys
Dreams With Sharp Teeth

Subculture immersion
Investigating a sub culture, meeting usually a cast of characters that expose a movement or way of life to the audience.
American Pimp
Wasteland
Pumping Iron
Murderball
Trekkies
Vernon, Florida
Revolution OS
The Bridge

Preset Hypothesis
Hypothesis is tested with a predetermined time limit, objective, or gimmick to structure the ideas it wishes to explore
Super Size Me
My Date with Drew
King Corn
Super High Me

Polemic
An opinion has been determined on a subject and other viewpoints have been excluded
Who Killed The Electric Car
Expelled
The Corporation
Faranheit 9/11


That's very rough, and theres a few that qualify for two catagories and others that dont fit easily into any of them.  But that's a bit more clinical way to look at it.

Eddie Doty

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