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Friends In Your Head | Forums → Off Topic → A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)
Alright, here's mine:
EPISODE 9
- Pretty easy to predict, given the single-location setup. Big battle at the Wall, Ygritte is killed, Jon gains favor, and Stannis shows up and everyone freaks out.
- There'll also probably be a scene where Sam and Gilly are reunited, which they set up this week.
- Also, that kid is totally gonna be the one to kill Ygritte. He's introduced when she shoots his dad, and the next time we see him he's at the Wall talking about how he's the "best archer in his village."
- Maaaaaaaaybe we see Bran? Just to quickly check in on him, as long as we're there? Although there's not too much more to do with him pre-Bloodraven.
EPISODE 10
- This one I can get more specific on. Starts in the aftermath of the battle at Castle Black, the need for a new Lord Commander is brought up. Maybe we get the election later in the episode? At the very least they have to set that up pretty strongly.
- The Hound collapses because Biter's bite is severely infected. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Arya will give him the gift of mercy. The showrunners teased that characters will die in the show who don't in the books, and since The Hound isn't likely to factor into the endgame of the series, I think this moment works. They've been building up Arya's brutality and thirst for blood all this season. It doesn't seem to fit into this version of the character to leave The Hound there to die, especially considering the relationship they've built up. I'm thinking this happens early in the episode, and her trip to Braavos comes closer to the end.
- One of two ways this could play out: One, Daenerys is furious in the wake of Jorah's betrayal, and it shows. Barristan tries to reason with her and she just flips. Shows the first sign of Targaryen madness, maybe? Alternately, they go closer to the book and have her broken up and more vulnerable after Jorah. Either way, it leads to the same thing, because her final scene of the season will definitely have a farmer bringing the "bones of a child" to her throne room. It's a nice downward twist, because this season has been all about Daenerys rising in power and confidence. The final scene will be a crushing blow, and it'll setup her slow spiral next season.
- I'm thinking we'll get a quick scene of Littlefinger and Sansa to follow up the events of episode 8. This may or may not involve Littlefinger explaining his plan to her re: Harry the Heir (or maybe just Robin, tbh. Simpler.) I think this would make a great cliffhanger, and it makes sense as a sort of initiation into the Game for Sansa.
- Bran and Co. will meet the Children of the Forest. Reeeeeeeeeeally don't know how this is gonna work on screen. But who cares? Anyway...
- Tyrion is fuming over his inevitable fate, knowing that one of the only two people in the world who gave half a crap about him doesn't have a head anymore. Then the other one comes to his cell to spring him. Jaime's GOT to tell him about Tysha, which they'll probably remind us about in the previously-on. He needs to be really angry when he gets to the Tower of the Hand, not just despairing. Unfortunately, I guess we're not getting the line about how Cersei is fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and Moonboy for all we know, because none of those characters are in the show and Cersei's sexual affairs haven't been touched on at all this season. This line was so key to Jaime's later material that I wonder what they'll do to replace it.
But speaking of lines like that, we'll surely get "Wherever whores go." I think that scene will play out almost exactly as it does on the page, right down to Tywin saying that he doesn't plan on executing Tyrion but on sending him to the Wall instead. I think it'll throw people for a loop to have Tyrion do something purely based on emotion and not pragmatism, especially right after killing Shae. And they'll spend all year rationalizing it with "Well he couldn't trust Tywin so he was totally justified!!!" and then he comes back in Season 5 all dark and moody and depressed to everyone's surprise. This scene should mirror the season's opening in some way directorially, though I can't imagine how. It completes the arc of the season, where the Lannisters started on top and the Starks on bottom, and now they've switched places completely. Which means the final scene has got to be...
- ...Lady Stoneheart! I'm really curious how they'll do this. It's gotta involve Brienne, right? But then what do they do with her during all of Season 5? I guess they could invent stuff for her to do with the Brotherhood like they've done with Theon, but if they do that I'm not sure how they'd get out of bringing Michelle Fairley back as a main cast member. Here's how I see it playing out:
Right after "Wherever whores go," we slowly fade to black as the score does this very mournful version of The Rains of Castamere. We hold in black for a little while, just long enough for people to think the episode is over (because what else could they POSSIBLY do, right?) but then we fade right back up on Brienne and Pod, walking along a path or something. Then maybe the Brotherhood comes upon them, or vice versa, and one of them recognizes or knows Brienne. They lead her to this clearing where a man has a noose around his neck. They explain that it's Merrett Frey, and he's screaming his head off about whatever (they'd use his lines from the book) and it can be inferred that he was at the Red Wedding. He says "You have no witness!" and then they bring out Lady Stoneheart. She takes off her hood, Stark theme builds to a massive crescendo, CREDITS. I can't imagine they'd introduce Lady Stoneheart by hanging Brienne. This moment has to feel hopeful and maybe almost heroic for the Starks. It won't work if the first thing she does is seemingly murder a fan-favorite character. Besides, it never made total sense to me why she threatened Brienne with death in the first place. Maybe I just don't remember the chapter very well. In any case, this is how I would do the scene, and it wouldn't surprise me if they do pretty much this version in the show. If anything, they just wouldn't include Brienne and Pod.
Most of that sounds right to me, except...
if _I_ran the zoo, I would end on Brienne being hanged by Stoneheart. In the book that scene ends with Brienne shouting "a word" which has yet to be revealed (although supposedly Martin has revealed it personally) . It would be a REAL shocker if the series let us hear that word before the books do. On the other hand, if they end on the same cliffhanger as the books, GRRM has another nine months to get Winds of Winter into bookstores and tell us how that scene ends.
As for ending the season on a Stark comeback - we've already got Sansa, Jon, and (probably) Arya and Bran all on the comeback trail. Dropping the Lady Stoneheart bomb could be the counterpoint to that. The kids are allright... but Mom's not.
Well, shit.
Martin's editor hints at possible eighth book in the series. "I remember when he called me, years and years back, to confess that his little trilogy was…well…no longer a trilogy. He predicted four books. I said Seven Books for Seven Kingdoms. Then he said five books. I said Seven Books for Seven Kingdoms. Then he went to six. I said… Well, you get it. Finally, we were on the same page. Seven Books for Seven Kingdoms. Good. Only, as I recently learned while editing The World of Ice and Fire (another awesome thing you must buy when it comes out!), there are really technically eight kingdoms, all having to do with who has annexed what when Aegon the Conqueror landed in Westeros. So, maybe eight books for Seven Kingdoms would be okay."
While I think that Tor is perhaps reading too much into her statement, I did find it interesting that when Martin realized that the series was going to be longer than a trilogy, it was his editor who kept telling him he had to have seven books for seven kingdoms rather than the five he'd planned. So maybe we could've avoided the entirety of AFFC/ADWD if it hadn't been for her.
Last edited by Abbie (2014-06-04 15:10:51)
I'm coming around on the fourth book.
With the lens of the emotional and thematic clarity we get from the TV show, I'm excited to see what they do with it.
Last edited by paulou (2014-06-04 07:55:24)
So now that Pedro Pascal has finished discharging his role, what do those who were initially upset by his casting think of his performance?
I think he did well. Part of the only problem I had with the TV version of him is that his sensuality was given more real estate than his subdued, yet always present anger. In the books you never once forget that revenge is his prime motivator, and in the show, it was lost in the shuffle of orgies.
I think Pedro Pascal could have portrayed a closer to book iteration of Oberyn (easily in my top 5 favorite characters in the books), but it would have required a different look, wardrobe, etc.
I liked the show's treatment of Oberyn, but a lot of the time it did seem like they were using him as an excuse to get inside a brothel. That said, I think Pedro Pascal absolutely killed it. His performance in the fight scene was electric. Were people initially upset about his casting? Why? I don't remember that.
Not of him personally, the complaints were that for a show spanning continents, all of the key roles are white, and they lost a chance to include some diversity with the Dornish.
But the last time a black guy in a wheelchair was on TV the show was cancelled after three episodes, so.
Last edited by paulou (2014-06-05 21:53:50)
Leaked casting calls indicate that they're looking for a black actor for Areo Hotah. So...that's one, I guess.
My favorite tinfoil theory is that the High Septon is Howland Reed.
Cleganebowl is the one true theory.
- The Hound collapses because Biter's bite is severely infected. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Arya will give him the gift of mercy. The showrunners teased that characters will die in the show who don't in the books, and since The Hound isn't likely to factor into the endgame of the series, I think this moment works
Kill the heathen.
Last edited by Ewing (2014-06-05 22:51:29)
Doctor Submarine wrote:My favorite tinfoil theory is that the High Septon is Howland Reed.
Cleganebowl is the one true theory.
Doctor Submarine wrote:- The Hound collapses because Biter's bite is severely infected. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Arya will give him the gift of mercy. The showrunners teased that characters will die in the show who don't in the books, and since The Hound isn't likely to factor into the endgame of the series, I think this moment works
Kill the heathen.
Sorry I forgot to GET HYPE
For shits and giggles I did a polynomial regression to work out when the last three books would be due out. It seems that they should be along in the latter halves of 2018, 2027 and 2038. I know the sample size is only 5, and I extrapolated beyond the range of the available data, but it seems reasonable in context.
If I were to be really cheeky, I would add GRRM's weight, and the frequency with which he blogs about football and non-ASOIAF things, as explanatory variables, to better refine this prediction.
So I say this mostly (mostly) tongue-in-cheek: It is guaranteed that the tv show will pass the books by a huge margin. Once this happens the tv-exclusive people WILL spoil it for the book-exclusive people. My professional opinion is that to balance the playing field, while there is still this window of opportunity, the book-only people should spoil the next two seasons for the tv-only people who have already displayed poor spoiler etiquette.
Herc can bring his inner math geek to the party anytime.
Is it confirmed there will be three more books? Last I heard he's still planning on seven books for seven kingdoms and the eighth book rumour was a joke gone gossip. Not that he hasn't changed the plan before...
I'd be surprised if we didn't get an eighth book, based on what we have seen in the last two (i.e., their pacing and content). There's not enough book left to wrap up all the plot threads without the story being rushed.
Considering said pacing and content of the last two books, a little rushing would probably do the story some good.
A return to the Storm of Swords level of action-packing would be welcome. The last two seasons on HBO have reminded me just how much was in that book.
What we DO know is that GRRM intended for the Battle for Mereen to be in ADWD, but editorially had to be shifted. We also know there will be a battle at the Wall. Both of these things will happen within the first ten chapters of TWOW. We also know Bran will be reaching deep into the north rather early, as GRRM has confirmed we're hitting The Land of Always Winter.
Combine those things with Aegon and Grif already having landed in Westeros, and Victarion with magic dragon horn (which technically Danny is the only one who can blow it and live) and an assload of ships, I think it's safe to say TWOW will have as much going on as SOS.
Considering said pacing and content of the last two books, a little rushing would probably do the story some good.
Very true. However, too much rushing could dramatically impact the overall quality of the opus. I'd hate for it to end like James Clavell's Shogun, suddenly and unsatisfactorily, or just to have a whole load of character threads dropped. For instance, I'll be pissed if we don't find out the fate of the Blackfish and Sandor.
I don't think GRRM is capable of rushing anything anyway.
There's a mildly interesting thread on r/asoiaf on the end game of the books/series. Any thoughts?
A fulfillment of "A Song of Ice and Fire" title could be having Dany get her batshit-crazy evil queen crown on, and with her dragons lead the white walkers to lay waste to all in her path...or not.
"In the place of *the king of the seven kingdoms* you would have a Queen! Not dark but beautiful and terrible as the Morn! Treacherous as the Seas! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love me and despair!"
Last edited by rockpapernukeitfromorbit (2014-06-06 21:31:23)
I don't think that's where Dany's arc is headed. I think she'll be consumed by madness and Barristan will be forced to kill her.
I don't think that's where Dany's arc is headed. I think she'll be consumed by madness and Barristan will be forced to kill her.
I hope that's what happens. I also think at some point Bran is going to warg into one of the dragons.
I think if anyone is turning evil, it's Bran.
I don't think that's where Dany's arc is headed. I think she'll be consumed by madness and Barristan will be forced to kill her.
Well I'm hoping for at least couple nude scenes before then, if true. And frankly, if not true as well.
Of course with some Jamie/Daario nude scenes to balance them out for those so inclined. I'm straight/married/kids, but I'd be the first to admit those are some fine looking men.
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