• Registered: 2012-01-22
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Topic: All you need...?

I finally got around to watching John Carter and listened to your commentary. Something that is getting me comes from early in it, talking about Taylor's horrible voice choise, and going on until the thought of "All you need is angst."

My problem with that is, if that is all you need, a raspy type of voice and an angsty character, then why the heck isn't Clint Eastwood starring in every thing?

I agree you need to have angsty characters in some parts, but that can't be the only thing. Lets look to LOTR (I know you did that alot in the commentary so I am doing it) Frodo, and the rest of the Fellowship don't exactly have a lot of angst. They do have moments of it, but it isn't really that big of a thing.

Now, I am not a movie maker, I work at a gas station over nights so I am not the guy to figure this all out. So I want to ask the question, to everyone, what at the central things you need in a character to have that character be loved?

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  • From: Norway
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Re: All you need...?

I think you'll have a better shot by posting this in the episode thread.

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  • Teague
  • Teague
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Re: All you need...?

*shrug* This thread works for me, it's more of a theory conversation anyway. It's not like this is the wrong forum for the thread.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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  • From: Gardena, California
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Re: All you need...?

An e-friend of mine wrote an article about this, I think I referenced it in the commentary but here's the link: John Carter, Sad Hero of Mars

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  • From: Gardena, California
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Re: All you need...?

Squiggly_P wrote:

Do you think maybe one of the problems with the way they write modern adventure-type movies is the lack of foils?

Oh my god. You're a genius.

The funny thing is that they keep cargo culting it -- they pair characters up, because they feel like they're supposed to, without understanding what the point of the pairing is supposed to be, and like you said about (what we're assuming about) the new Die Hard, they end up being the same character arguing with himself occasionally rather than two characters with different perspectives.

Last edited by Dorkman (2013-02-03 21:59:12)

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  • From: Farmington, CT
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Re: All you need...?

That's a really good point, Squiggly. Maybe screenwriters today become so invested in their heroes that making a character who's the opposite of him/her is too difficult. Can we think of any examples of foils in recent action movies?

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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  • From: Gardena, California
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Re: All you need...?

DREDD. big_smile

Also AVENGERS. I think people responded to it because the characters had legitimately different points of view, rather than having the same point of view and just arguing about who's in charge.

The original MEN IN BLACK did this wonderfully and perhaps the latest one failed to have the same energy because it lacked the interplay.

I think this was probably part of the appeal of LOOPER, too, although like a number of other things I think the film failed to leverage the guy-as-his-own-foil as much as it might have.

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  • From: State of Idaho
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Re: All you need...?

Two questions I have, after reading this is:
1. The new Lone Ranger movie? Does that work for the foil between Tanto and the Lone Ranger? Obviously we can't judge the movie yet but I am referring to the overall idea of a sidekick, in essence.
2. Is the lack of foils due in part to pressure of having one big name star rather than an ensemble?

God loves you!

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  • From: Indiana, USA
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Re: All you need...?

Let's not put too much emphasis on the idea of foils. The 1980s were rife with what Roger Ebert called "wunza" movies: one's a cop; one's a con... one's a veteran about to retire, one's a lunatic about to commit suicide... one's a bounty hunter; one's a mob accountant who jumped bail... One's a black Detroit cop, two are white Beverly Hills cops...

That often worked, but it led directly to—for example—Rob Schneider getting cast in Demolition Man and Judge Dredd.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

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  • From: State of Idaho
  • Registered: 2010-12-08
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Re: All you need...?

Zarban wrote:

Let's not put too much emphasis on the idea of foils. The 1980s were rife with what Roger Ebert called "wunza" movies: one's a cop; one's a con... one's a veteran about to retire, one's a lunatic about to commit suicide... one's a bounty hunter; one's a mob accountant who jumped bail... One's a black Detroit cop, two are white Beverly Hills cops...

That often worked, but it led directly to—for example—Rob Schneider getting cast in Demolition Man and Judge Dredd.

As with anything, it needs balancing, and I think that part of the problem is that characters are either archtypes (loner, jock, hitman, girl next door, etc,) and are not fleshed out very well, or they are so emphasized that the rest of the cast goes to the back burner.

I think "wunza" movies need to comeback, so much as character development needs to happen more often than it seems to in modern film making.

One example of a "wunza" happens in fan films. One is a master and the other is an apprentice, either Jedi or Sith. Very rarely are they two of equal rank who work together to solve a problem, each with their own strengths and weaknesses.

Dorkman pointed out that "Avengers" is a great example of foils, and complimenting strengths and weaknesses. I haven't seen Dredd yet, but plan on it, so I'll take his word for it on that point.

I don't think we need foils so much as we need compliments. You cannot have a jack of all trades character without it starting to feel like a Bond or MacGuyver parody. Things like the Ocean movies emphasis more the team. Even if just a two man team, its nice to have that dynamic.

Actually, while not recent, "National Treasure" has a good foil dynamic.

God loves you!

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