Topic: Iron Man 2

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Iron Man 2

That is hilarious. They should all be like that from now on.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

3 (edited by johnpavlich 2011-11-27 23:40:22)

Re: Iron Man 2

LOL, I thought it was a comment on how seemingly half-assed and flippant Iron Man 2 was put together. smile

P.S. Glad to see Ryan's review represented here. I have a friend who is a graphic designer (he's done work on Spider-Man 2 promotional material with Dr. Pepper, and ad designs for Blockbuster, and the cover art for the Open Range DVD) and has recently started doing photos and life casts of nude models. Anyway, he loved Iron Man 2 (You think you know someone and then...) and I tried to show him Ryan's video. He had a cable hooked up to a big TV, connected to his iPhone so we could watch the YouTube vid. We got as far as the mention about the old footage of Howard Stark, before there was a connection/download problem and we couldn't watch the rest. He just responded with, "I disagree with pretty much everything that guy said." When the thing about Iron Man getting a new suit design for shallow and unknown reasons came up, he yelled, "IT'S IN THE COMIC!" as if that was the great, big justifier and winner of the argument.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Iron Man 2

Is it me, or does Teague start out sounding a tad...  like he had a glass or two already? wink

/Z

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Iron Man 2

I was on painkillers.

I swear to god I'm not slowly dying before your ears.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Iron Man 2

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Iron Man 2

Re: Iron Man 2

Mileage varies, but the first red flag for me was the toxicity level reveal in the first 5 minutes.  Second one was the congressional hearing at the ten minute mark.  Third was the Monaco sequence.  The issues pile was gathering long before any Avengers made the screen.  In fact, if you know nothing of the characters, than you wouldn't know ScarJo is an Avenger until the scene where Nick Fury appears, which is over halfway through the movie.  If little bothered you before that, awesome.  But in my mind the Avengers was the least of that movie's problems.

Eddie Doty

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Iron Man 2

I don't have anything relevant to say about Iron Man 2, but Thor was worth seeing for Chris Hemsworth and his rather fetching biceps. I understand this argument may not be relevant to Trey.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

10 (edited by Doctor Submarine 2011-11-28 18:18:21)

Re: Iron Man 2

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Iron Man 2

All sequels are problematic, IM2 no less than any other.  But although the execution was far from perfect, there was a story there that was interesting to me.  It started by saying "Okay, so now you're a superhero with no secret identity.  Let's look at the dark side of that."  Which is a fun idea, certainly not often seen in superhero movies.

The Hero's Journey construction is about the low rising to a high place because of their strengths.  Tragedy is about the high falling low because of their faults, and the first half of Iron Man 2 hit all the notes.  Some notes were a little off, but close enough for me, and if there's anyone that I'd pick to play a superhero falling from grace, it's RDJr.

While "palladium toxicity" is bogus and magic-bean-y (and harder to say than "flux capacitor"), it's no more so than the Arc reactor or the suit itself.  I rolled with that because it worked thematically.  The very thing that makes the world adore him - and he clearly thrives on that -  is also killing him.   Yeah, kinda on the nose, but at least it was a way to demonstrate his addictive personality beyond just seeing him get drunk ALL the time.    Tony'd rather die than give up being Iron Man, gotcha. 

We get some hints that this comes from never getting validation from his dad... eh, okay.   It's no wonkier than those movies about the guy with the bat fetish, and I'm okay with those, too.

Meanwhile Mickey Rourke is in Russia, resenting Tony's usurping of the fame that should have gone to his own family.   He formulates a plan, not to kill Tony, but to turn the public against him.  Because he too understands that the adoration means more to Tony than his life.   Lookee there - plot, character and theme all lined up.  Somewhere William Goldman is smiling.  Well, except during the jokes about Rourke's "bourrdd".

The congressional hearing made sense because now that the world knows who Iron Man is, it's reasonable to ask if a drunken loose-cannon playboy should have sole control of a superweapon.  (If Lindsay Lohan were to develop nuclear capability, why yes, I WOULD like some Congressional oversight, thank you.)  Tony laughs it off, charms his way out the door, ignores the very real threat of having his toys taken away.  So far so good.  The downward spiral is underway.

I, too, was offended by the Monaco sequence, because it reeked of "Look how big our budget is this time!" And Favreau's limo heroics were doofy, but all movies gotta have their "trailer moments" I guess.  But story-wise, I just would have preferred a sharper demonstration of "making God bleed" than just scorching the paint job on Tony's suit.  Right idea, but not the best execution.

But then things get mostly back on track, in that Tony goes completely off the rails to the point that even his closest allies abandon him. and he ends up in a brawl with his best buddy and destroying his own house.   My main complaint here is that he never REALLY hits rock bottom - I would have preferred he lose his suit completely, not just one of the spares.   And it turns out his house wasn't that badly wrecked after all, it's still intact enough for him to go back to and cobble up another batch of pseudo-science later.  Better if he had had to start all over again from nothing, like in the Afghan cave.

So yeah - not perfect, but at least there's a story there, and a structure that's mostly holding up.   Story-wise, it's time for Tony to realize what he's been doing wrong, pull his shit together, and go save Christmas.

But instead some strangers show up and solve most of Tony's problems over a cup of coffee because they are Just That Awesome.  Scarlett gives him an anti-palladium injection that she happens to have, and then Sam literally sends Tony to his room with orders not to come out until he's learned his lesson.  And just to speed things along, he gives Tony a box full of Instant Daddy-Issue Remover.

This is the very definition of deus ex machina.   Up until this point , Iron Man 2 was certainly not perfect, but at least it was about Iron Man, and it was headed in a certain direction.  Once the Avengers crash the party, it's all about getting this movie over with so Iron Man can go be in their movie. Sam Jackson literally SAYS that there are more important things going on elsewhere.  Nice, guys - way to undercut whatever tension there was in the movie I'm watching.

So Tony makes a new improved flux capacitor (because his dad designed the Expo grounds in the shape of a... the hell with it, it doesn't actually matter), then fights a bunch of robots.  Meanwhile across town Scarlett Johansson does gymnastics and then deus'es another machina, typing heroically for great justice.  Stuff explodes a lot, the end.

And thus Tony's self-destructive tendencies, and the entire issue of what happens when the common folk see God bleed and realize their hero is fallible, are resolved by ignoring the fact that the first half of the movie was about those things.

So yeah - Iron Man 2 was never likely to be as good as the first, but few sequels are.  But The Avengers sure didn't HELP.

Re: Iron Man 2

We've got to get this guy on DIF at some point.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Iron Man 2

Nah, I'd just talk too much and interrupt everybody.  Thanks, though!

Re: Iron Man 2

I get what you're saying, and again, mileage varies.  Fr me, it wasn't the absence of a story, just the sheer directionlessness of it.  Let me ask you this, though.  If his awesome friends don't come to help, in the scenario crafted by Favreau/Theroux how was he going text out of it?  Yes, Marvel wanted Avengers in there, but they didn't specifically dictate the manner with which those elements are introduced.  The way I've been told Marvel handles this is by presenting the writer with a list of things that have to be satisfied.  It's up to the creative team of each film how they want to incorporate it.  At the end of the day, Jon and Justin wrote that film, and made the decisions with how Tony Stark interacts with those wacky friends of his.  Maybe your issue is with the Avengers stuff, but I still think it falls to Jon to make that stuff work, and I think it's certainly possible to do so.

Eddie Doty

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Iron Man 2

Re: Iron Man 2

My credentials seem to expand every time Teague retells the lightsaber power requirements story. Apparently now I was writing a thesis, maybe next time I get to be a professor. Anyway, taking the clip from TPM where Qui-Gon is melting through the blast door and making some assumptions, you can do some math and figure out possible power requirements for a lightsaber, a number I recall being in the realm of 300 Megawatts, which, in comparison, is more than enough to power an aircraft carrier.

Thumbs up +1 Thumbs down

Re: Iron Man 2

18 (edited by Zarban 2011-11-29 19:55:38)

Re: Iron Man 2

Re: Iron Man 2

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Iron Man 2

My biggest problem with IM2 is Mickey Rourke's atrocious performance. Then the film is mostly directionless as it meanders from one subplot to another. It simplies tries to tell too many stories at once and isn't really about anything as a result. I still remember thinkin half way through - where is this going? what story are you telling me? The cameo of two Avengers is the least of this movie's problems in my view.

It should have just been about Tony's approaching death and his inability to keep things under control, like Trey suggested above. It certainly didn't need some completely over the top villain with senseless motivation. I love how him and his father have been slumming it up and cursing the Starks all the years... whilst sitting on the schematics of revolutionary technology.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Iron Man 2

Thumbs up Thumbs down

22 (edited by Joe 2011-12-03 08:50:29)

Re: Iron Man 2

I wonder how much all of the tie in content from other movies will actually help Avengers. Are they really going to ease the mental gymnastics that the average movie goer that isn't well versed in the Marvel universe will have perform to accept that this is on some level possible? Just off the top of my head there's the Arc Reactor, super soldier serum, vibranium, the cosmic cube, aliens and whatever the Hulk is, that's 6 magic beans. I have disturbingly strong suspension of disbelief so I can't adequately determine if breaking up the beans into different movies makes them more digestible to normal people so someone else will have to figure that out. I think that it might have been easier to just make the Avengers first and push it in to wonderland territory where science is just fucking loony like that. But that might fuck up doing movies about the characters origin stories now that I think about it.

With science!

Thumbs up Thumbs down

23 (edited by paulou 2011-12-03 13:08:31)

Re: Iron Man 2

Was the Disney merger/acquisition during production? If it did, could have been a problem of suddenly having twice as many creative executives and middle managers swoop in on a project in production to prove their worth.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Iron Man 2

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

Thumbs up Thumbs down

25

Re: Iron Man 2

Well for the most part yes, but that's in comics primarily comics and cartoons where the weird stuff happens. I've noticed for the most part the movies at least try to tone things down a little and for the most part stick to villains running on the same magic bean. The X-Men fight other mutants, Batman fights other crazy people and the Punisher fight other guys with guns. That's a tad more believable than Spider-Man teaming up with Rocket-Raccoon in order to fight Thanos... which I would love to see Dreamworks do an animated version of.

With science!

Thumbs up Thumbs down