Re: #51 - The Best / Worst of 2012

This is just a general question, relating to Zero Dark Thirty but also the topic of actual audio in general-is there any situation where you would say that use of actual recordings from an event such as 9/11?

Generally speaking, I am in agreement with Trey, Allison and Jimmy that the sounds of people in their last moments should be regarded with much respect and the movie theater is hardly the place. Would a documentary be more appropriate, if at all?

God loves you!

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Re: #51 - The Best / Worst of 2012

Well sure - in a documentary such a thing could be acceptable, obviously there are plenty of docs about 9/11 and other topics with horrifying real imagery in them.  There can be arguments about how much horror should be shown, of course - just because footage exists, it doesn't necessarily mean it should be used - but that depends a lot on the point of the doc and the filmmaker's discretion etc. 

Werner Herzog opted not to play the actual audio of Timothy Treadwell being eaten by a bear in Grizzly Man, and I suspect that was a good call.   On the other hand, Spike Lee used graphic morgue photographs in Four Little Girls, and although that was pretty awful to look upon, I think it was "appropriate" for that doc.

I just remembered the term for the difference between being realistic and being real in a fictional work:  Aesthetic_distance.   To violate the aesthetic distance is to do something that bursts the bubble of fictional reality that a fictional work intends to create.   Really, it's just the fancy term for "breaking the 4th wall" but nowadays we tend to use the latter term to mean characters talking directly to the audience, whereas "aesthetic distance" is more general.

David Mamet wrote about this in On Directing, his example was when a movie shows an actor playing the piano, and does the obligatory tilt from his face to his hands to say "look, he's really playing!".   Which makes the audience think "Hey, Will Ferrell can actually play the piano!"   And you don't want that.  You've just  pushed them out of the world you're trying to create and back into the real world.

Admittedly, breaking the 4th wall can work in comedies... a comedy can get away with saying hey folks, none of this is real and we all know it!     But a movie that intends to be serious violates the aesthetic distance at its peril.

So in the case of ZD30, just from a creative standpoint if not a moral one -  beginning the movie with the voices of real people who are really about to die undercuts the movie's intent to make us care when Jessica Chastain gets fake-injured by a fake explosion.    Walk it off, Jess - we just heard the real thing.  You ain't actually hurt.

So, you can tell a story about 9/11 with actors and dramatic re-creations, or you can tell the story of 9/11 as a documentary with the real footage and the real horror, but mixing the two is a tricky business that risks alienating or confusing the audience.    That works both ways too - we've all seen documentaries that suddenly switch from real footage to a sketchy re-enactment and immediately thought "bogus!"

Re: #51 - The Best / Worst of 2012

As far as the 9/11 calls, they probably did really cross the line, and the more I think about it, the more I see your points, but that opening really worked for me at the time, so chilling.

Also, loved Haywire, forgot to mention it. And The Raid barely missed my top 10. If I were more of a martial arts fan, it wold definitely have made it.

Ooh, TV

1. Mad Men
2. Girls
3. Breaking Bad (1/2 season after all)
4. Bob's Burgers (so goddamn good)
5. Louie (just not as strong as last season)
6. Parenthood (seriously, great show)
7. Parks & Rec
8. Boardwalk Empire
9. Community
10. Justified (no Mags this season)

Last edited by Mr. Pointy (2013-01-29 00:17:36)

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Re: #51 - The Best / Worst of 2012

Just to compile my earlier thoughts:

BEST DOCUMENTARIES 2012

1. The Invisible War
2. The Imposter
3. Jiro Dreams of Sushi
4. Searching for Sugar Man
5. Indie Game: The Movie
6. Bones Brigade: An Autobiography
7. The Queen of Versailles
8. How To Survive a Plague
9. West of Memphis
10.The American Scream

Honorable Mention: Paradise Lost 3, Head Games, Saving Face, The Other F Word, The House I Live In, Room 237, The Other Dream Team

Last edited by Eddie (2013-01-29 00:56:13)

Eddie Doty

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Re: #51 - The Best / Worst of 2012

I couldn't really get into The American Scream. I might give it another shot, but I personally didn't find the people being profiled all that interesting. The Invisible War was incredibly powerful, though.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: #51 - The Best / Worst of 2012

Recently have seen Searching for Sugar Man and Queen of Versailles and both are excellent. Still need to check out The Invisible War and Jiro (and others, but those are on Instant)

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Re: #51 - The Best / Worst of 2012

Just saw this article on Vulture. At least one family is really against their loved one's dying words being used in ZDT:

http://www.vulture.com/2013/02/family-o … m-zdt.html

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Re: #51 - The Best / Worst of 2012

Just watched The Master, and I think I'm going to have to revise my best of the year list. It's a truly extraordinary film. It absolutely demands to be studied and analyzed, but it doesn't fall into cliche or overwrought symbolism. It doesn't make you feel stupid for not "getting" it, or hide behind complex, meaningless metaphors. Instead, it actively provokes your imagination, and forces you to think about it what it might possibly mean.

That said, I don't blame Teague or Trey for not engaging with it. It's a really cold, distant movie most of the time, and definitely not for everyone. But I was absolutely enthralled.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: #51 - The Best / Worst of 2012

Saw Frankenweenie finally, and really iked it.

Despite Brave being a disappointment, I think this year was a strong one fro animated films.

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