Topic: Backyard Blockbusters

Backyard Blockbusters is, at time of release, not available anywhere but the film festival circuit. Alas, it includes most of us DIF folk in interviews, and at least one fanfilm made by every single one of us, and is generally a fun little documentary to watch.

In the absence of anything real to show ya, here's some Trey talking about a fun experience at The Ranch, doing an audio mastering for Pink Five right in the heart of Lucasfilm.

As far as DIF folk go, the documentary includes references, project excerpts, or interviews from:

Teague, Brian, Dorkman, Ryan, Trey, Eddie, Frommeyer, and Hanel.

Not to mention work from this very forum, in the form of helping me with the title song I wrote for the film, engineered by our very own Lamer and arranged by R. A. Elliott. Both of whom have big fancy credits we saw in the theater.  big_smile

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Backyard Blockbusters

I'm in it?

Eddie Doty

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Re: Backyard Blockbusters

You-shots from Pink Five are. It still counts!

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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"Backyard Blockbusters is, at time of release, not available anywhere [useful]."

Great. Get back to us when it's available to see.

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I feel important big_smile

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Re: Backyard Blockbusters

Looks exciting big_smile
Actually, one quote in there that I found really interesting was from io9.com that filmmakers should be worried that independent and amateur makers can craft such fun, exciting films that may be better than some of the original source material.

I think that the professionals could take a cue from backyard makers given the level of passion and desire that these people bring to the works.

God loves you!

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Re: Backyard Blockbusters

That's the same dynamic that has been happening (slowly) in music - the fact that the cost of production has really fallen to the point where you don't need a professional recording studio means anyone can cut an album now. The same trend is happening in film, although obviously even more slowly.
Distribution has been a big problem, but now that anyone can put their movie on bit torrent the only obstacle is advertising. As soon as you get a torrent up you can start really promoting this.

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This is great. I really hope streaming services like Netflix and Amazon Instant pick this up and that they start making it a habit to make little indie films available. That should provide a modest revenue stream that just putting it on YouTube or bittorrent can't, just in case it takes off.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

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I would pay for a semi-official DVD, plus international postage.

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I guess it depends what your goals are. Getting the thing watched by a significant number of people is one potential goal, getting it accepted into a very narrow distribution channel that might provide some monetization is another. Frankly though, these things are kind of 19th century - the people who will pay for this will pay for it regardless of whether they can see it for free, and the people who won't pay for it will see it free regardless of whether you or someone else put it on bt. You're better off uploading it to bt and asking for donations.

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TheGregs advice does not constitute financial advice. Besides, he thinks your fan film documentary is from the 1800s.

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Aha - you misunderstand me for comic effect! I do think the idea of making it difficult for people to see you movie through your channels unless they give you money is from the 1800s. If the paid version is more difficult to use than the free one, well, we know where that leads...

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So the argument here is "don't even try to sell products because people would rather steal them"?   

People like cars and most of us would rather get them for free than pay for them.   Should car manufacturers just leave cars on the street with the keys inside, in hopes that people will give them a few bucks before they drive away?  It's an interesting concept, but seems like it would be unsustainable as a business.   smile

The idea that someone, anyone, should spend time and effort making a media product, then make it available for free and hope that users will donate money afterward... well, to an end user it probably sounds great, but that isn't a business model that any other industry follows.  And for good reason.

Re: Backyard Blockbusters

Trey - your analogy is a little baffling. Cars are physical objects. If I steal a car, then someone else doesn't have it any more. Making a digital copy is not like that at all - if someone makes a digital copy of something, they have it, and so do you. Nothing is stolen.

There certainly seems to be a lot of nostalgia for the days when copying an idea (the contents of a book, the arrangement of bits in an mp3, or the arrangement of pixels in a movie) was synonymous with creating a physical object (a book, an LP, or a VHS tape), but that isn't the case any more.

As to whether anyone would make a media project and make it available for free, there is a vast amount of material licensed and released like that. Take a look at www.sitasingstheblues.com for an example. The free software movement, creative commons licensed music etc etc.

As for organizations that make their money this way, NPR is an obvious example of an organization that makes its money like this. In fact, it's hard to find an industry that produces digital goods that works the way you suggest that isn't heading for bankruptcy.

The bottom line is that the choice is not between wether or not to make it available for free, but between whether or not to make the paid option more difficult to use and get than the free one.

Last edited by TheGreg (2012-11-29 21:46:22)

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Re: Backyard Blockbusters

Trey - your analogy is a little baffling. Cars are physical objects. If I steal a car, then someone else doesn't have it any more. Making a digital copy is not like that at all - if someone makes a digital copy of something, they have it, and so do you. Nothing is stolen.

The product isn't stolen when you pirate a movie, the money is stolen.

*shrug*

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Backyard Blockbusters

TheGreg wrote:

In fact, it's hard to find an industry that produces digital goods that works the way you suggest that isn't heading for bankruptcy.

The South Korean music industry would disagree with this statement. Despite global trends, music sales continue to grow in South Korea, and around half of all music sold is through digital distribution channels.

The industry does not operate on a "pay if you want to" model, rather they use a common sense (not heavy-handed) approach to copyright enforcement.

South Korea’s improved copyright landscape did not happen overnight. The government began to update its copyright law in 2007, requiring online service providers to filter illegal content on request from rights holders.  In July 2009, graduated response measures were introduced and in April 2011 a new law required cyberlockers and P2P services to register with the government and implement filtering measures.  South Korea operates a range of measures to tackle digital piracy, overseen by the Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism (MCST) and largely implemented by the Korea Copyright Commission (KCC)

The government says 70 per cent of infringing users stop on receipt of a first notice and 70 per cent of the remaining infringers stop on receipt of a second notice.  If users refuse to stop following three notices, this triggers a further series of “correction orders” issued by the MCST.  Only a small percentage of users continued to infringe once they received repeat notices backed by a sanction.

What you're describing is a sub-set of local social attitudes to digital media, not the panacea for sustainable business.

For more information on this topic, take a look at http://www.ifpi.org/content/library/DMR2012.pdf

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Re: Backyard Blockbusters

Teague -

What money is stolen? Show it to me. After a copy is made no one is any worse off than they were before the copy was made.

The claim that every copy is a lost sale is a slightly weaker version of this fallacy, and makes the case that everyone who makes a copy of something would have paid for it had they not had the ability to make a copy, but the problem is that this is quite obviously false. The number of people who would watch something for $15 is a lot smaller than the number of people who would watch it for free. Clearly as you increase the price, the number of people interested drops off. Plainly every copy made is not the removal of some notional purchase.

Last edited by TheGreg (2012-11-29 22:03:34)

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Re: Backyard Blockbusters

...

*blink*

Are you trolling?

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Dave - the South Korean model sounds like a fascinating, if rather scary and intrusive, attempt to recreate the 1950s, but passing increasingly draconian laws to try to protect business models from advances in technology is a terrible idea.

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Re: Backyard Blockbusters

Teague wrote:

...

*blink*

Are you trolling?

Seriously? Are you? What can you possibly even mean by that? I suppose you think that you view on copyright is so obviously correct that anyone who holds a different view is a troll.

I hope that you can understand that I am genuinely baffled by your take on this - it seems utterly impossible to me that a smart personal alive in the 21st century could believe what you seem to.

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I don't know how to break out a useful analogy to describe how a trade system works, because a trade system is about as simple as simple gets. But let's imagine, out of the possibility that it's simpler, the following.

I invite you and Dave and Zarban and Fireproof and Lamer over to my house tonight, for wine and hang-outery. I'm providing the wine, because I'm a cool guy, and all I ask in return is for some fun times and good conversation with friends. When everyone shows up and that's exactly what happens, we're square.

But if you show up to the party with a wine glass, pour some of the wine, and leave again... clearly the trade is out of balance. Now, is it your fault that the barter system allows for you to do this? Of course not. And I'm not going to chase and stab you as you walk away drinking my wine, so you see it as fair. But it's a system built largely upon mutual respect and an understanding of what a thing is worth. In this case, a few glasses of wine are worth a couple hours of conversation.

...

Ergo... things have... value? And taking them without turning over the agreed-upon worth is stealing?

That's what I mean. I can follow your lines of logic about why it's alright to steal stuff, but you know, I work in the movie industry. People paying for movies is something I'm inclined to care about.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Backyard Blockbusters

Teague - we're back at the 'things' analogy. How can I explain to you how a physical thing is different to an idea? If, indeed, I came to your house and drank all your wine, you would not have any wine. If, however, I came to your house, and you told me a joke, and I told it to someone else, I would have copied some information you gave me. You would still have it.

That's not theft.

With regard to the industry you work in, and how you wish the world was different so that it would be easier to make a living, I do understand that. It's just not reasonable for a particular industry to hold back technology and progress in order to prop up a business model that used to work. Imagine if the buggy-whip manufacturers had managed to convince Congress that every horseless carriage sale was the theft of a sale that would otherwise have gone to them?

Last edited by TheGreg (2012-11-29 22:19:51)

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Re: Backyard Blockbusters

I understand the fact that a joke and a cabinet are different types of commodities.

(Thinking now in terms of joke-writers for comedians.)

But here's the thing. That doesn't change the fact that you pay for either one of those. A trade constitutes at least two factions: the good or service, and the payment for the service. The fact that the joke writer doesn't scrape the joke onto a rock and sell you the rock doesn't make it any less a-thing-he-gets-paid-for. Or, in the case of someone not paying him for it, not.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Now we're getting somewhere. If I were a professional joke writer, I think I would want to get paid by the hour, because the idea that it would be illegal for someone to repeat a joke they heard is horrific to me. I hope it is to you, but at this point I am not sure.

I for one don't want to live in the kind of world where we have to mail residual checks to joke-writers, or worry that we might be overheard by copyright police 'stealing' jokes.

The fact is though that a joke is not (in most instances) a copyrightable thing. Nor should it be.

Last edited by TheGreg (2012-11-29 22:23:18)

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Re: Backyard Blockbusters

TheGreg wrote:

Dave - the South Korean model sounds like a fascinating, if rather scary and intrusive, attempt to recreate the 1950s, but passing increasingly draconian laws to try to protect business models from advances in technology is a terrible idea.

It's protecting a business model that funds ongoing investment in artists.

Let's say someone wants to make a film but doesn't expect anyone to pay for it. Where does the investment come from to get it made? Who pays the people to make the film? Assuming you're in America, your social net isn't fantastic. Who pays your rent and food bills while you work for several years on a project? That project may not make a profit if people don't decide to pay, or only pay what they like. Ad-skipping through TV means that method of revenue is getting shakier; advertisers aren't seeing a return on their investment.

What is your plan to pay people who make the things you consume?

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