• Teague
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Topic: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

If you liked District 9, you'll like Elysium.

SPOILER Show
1. Call me a pansy, but the "us vs. them," "99%" thing was screaming this project in the face, and I don't feel like they capitalized on it at all. The absurd lack of social commentary in this one - moreover, social point making - bugged me.

2. Once Jodie dies, I have no idea what Sharlto wants. His stated goal was to get re-enlisted, and it was an off the books deal with her. Once she dies, I have no idea why he does anything at all, much less become evil Robocop. (I had figured, by mid-act-one, that he'd end up on Max's team and they'd take down Elysium together.) (Because Max would have by-then discovered and articulated the basic inhumanity of the system and explained it in a way that our children would be reciting, because this movie was screaming for that to happen.) (Did not.)

3. Fucking gorgeous. Holy shit, guys. Crazy, next-level props to the teams behind the photography and VFX.

4. This was oddly predictable. Not just formulaic, it had its diversions. Just oddly predictable.

5. Neill made the same movie twice. All the "problems" with District 9 happen again here. Two acts of heady setup, third act is Die-Hard-with-a- ____ .  (In D9, it's Die Hard With A Cockroach. In this, it's Die Hard With A Mech Suit.)

All in all, I liked it. As we're fond of saying, if this were the new bar for summer movies, I'll fucking take it.

But in terms of the promise of the writer/director? I don't feel like any meaningful progress has been made since D9. Yet another great idea for a sci-fi movie, yet another "very-exciting-but-flawed" execution. It would take a monumental fuck-up on Blomkamp's part for me to not be in his corner, and he hasn't come close to a monumental fuck-up with this. But I'm less excited for his third movie than I was for his second, and that's kind of bumming me out.

Note: this movie is great. It's just not outstanding, and apparently I'm an entitled asshole. An entitled, spoiled asshole. What should happen to spoiled, entitled people like me - and why - is what should have been evident in Elysium. Sadly, apparently at the end of the day

SPOILER Show
all of the not-entitled people just end up getting medical treatment and going back to their hovels.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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  • Holden
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Re: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

We have a spoiler tag, you know.

Edit: You also ruined the ending on your last line. neutral

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Re: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

Huh, so it's still pretty good? I'd heard from multiple people that it pulls a Sunshine in act 3 and falls apart big time. At this point in the summer I'll take "pretty good".

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  • From: Annapolis, MD
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Re: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

As far as I'm concerned, Elysium is the best looking movie I've ever seen, the art direction and visual effects are absolutely flawless. I had moments where I couldn't tell what was CGI and what wasn't and I've never had that experience before with any film. In particular:

  Show
Kruger's facial reconstruction is going to stick with me until the day I die. I've never seen something that fucking insane before.

I disagree about the third act flaws in District 9 and Elysium, I actually consider the third act to be the strongest aspect of each movie's narrative. They're great bloody payoffs to the set-ups of all the technological possibilities in their respective fictional worlds.

All in all, I loved it. It wasn't quite as amazing as District 9 but it reaffirmed my love for Neill Blomkamp. He is my favorite director on the planet. He's making the type of movies that I spent years day-dreaming of as a kid.

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  • Teague
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Re: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

Sorry about the last line, Holden.

I thought of another way to put it, by the way.

  Show
The problem with Elysium is that it sets up the problem of inequality in society, and pays off the problem of sometimes people get sick.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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  • From: Annapolis, MD
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Re: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

Teague wrote:

  Show
The problem with Elysium is that it sets up the problem of inequality in society, and pays off the problem of sometimes people get sick.

  Show
But isn't the second issue related directly to the first?

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  • Teague
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Re: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

  Show

Sort of, and it might work if you flipped the order of them, but it's a forest-trees sort of thing.

Like, you make a movie about hundreds of thousands of soldiers dying from their wounds in an oppressive war-is-hell context, and the ending is they figure out how to make better stitches.

"Well. Okay, thank you, but that wasn't really the bigger problem here."

If the setting of Elysium was everyone on earth is dying, Max bringing back the medical technology would be a fitting ending. But the setting is that everyone on Earth is poor and the divide between the rich and the poor is unbelievable, so the ending being "also humans still get sick sometimes and we sorta fixed that" doesn't exactly make for a water-tight throughline.

Teague Chrystie

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  • From: Annapolis, MD
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Re: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

Fair enough. That's a valid criticism but I'm a major fanboy for Blomkamp so I'm willing to overlook it because it's nothing too detrimental.

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  • paulou
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Re: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

Ewing wrote:

He's making the type of movies that I spent years day-dreaming of as a kid.

Wouldn't you rather watch the movies you daydream of as an adult?

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  • From: Annapolis, MD
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Re: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

paulou wrote:
Ewing wrote:

He's making the type of movies that I spent years day-dreaming of as a kid.

Wouldn't you rather watch the movies you daydream of as an adult?

They're pretty much the same.

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  • paulou
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Re: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

That is so sad.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dyNmrbpDXSo/Tzmb4Cjc3oI/AAAAAAAAHXI/5DOIyVfWZUg/s1600/barneyMoviePack.jpg

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  • From: Buffalo, NY
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Re: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

Well, he is only 18, so it's not like he's been an adult all THAT long.

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  • Trey
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Re: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

Everything Teague said.    So beautifully made, so many good ideas... such an unsatisfying conclusion.

In my opinion Elysium is a good candidate for a FIYH session - I was rewriting the third act while I was watching it.

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14 Reply by Phi

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Re: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

I really enjoyed it. Its flaws are bothering me now, both scientific and economic, but it had enough interesting ideas and sexy art direction that I was with it most of the way. Apparently Blomkamp came up with the story idea when he moved from South Africa to Canada and was floored by the difference in standard of living. I guess our socialized medicine system really made an impact on him too. Whoo, I live in Elysium!

That said, I have a cunning plan that's way way better and safer than Spider's:

  Show
1) Invent/Built/Finance/Steal a magic medbay and have it on Earth
2) Obvious
3) Profit

Last edited by Phi (2013-08-12 02:47:37)

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  • From: Annapolis, MD
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Re: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

paulou wrote:

That is so sad.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dyNmrbpDXSo/Tzmb4Cjc3oI/AAAAAAAAHXI/5DOIyVfWZUg/s1600/barneyMoviePack.jpg

Nah man, more like this:

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6a459fc47fbe.jpg

Ewing's Website

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  • From: State of Idaho
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Re: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbl06wrT9t1rcktu3o1_500.jpg

As far as Elysium, is it similar to Lockout in its whole premise of man must break in to high tech facility?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1592525/?ref_=sr_4

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17 Reply by Phi

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Re: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

Haven't seen Lockout, but no. Elysium is not particularly about breaking into a high tech facility.

Last edited by Phi (2013-08-13 02:46:35)

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  • From: Maryland
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Re: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

  Show
Yeah, it felt to me like they cut the ending short. They didn't really go into what happened as a result of everyone becoming a citizen of Elysium. And I think it's probably because they couldn't think of an outcome that was both logical and happy for the world. When the movie ended, all I could think was that the worst was inevitably still ahead for everyone.

So those ships went back to Earth to get the sick people. That's a LOT of people. How are they going to manage that many people, all landing in at once? Also, since people on Earth already had the ability to fly up there on their own, that means more than just the sick people would make their way up, uncontested. Riots would ensue in Elysium. It makes the most sense to me that Earth would stay the same, while Elysium would become just as crappy, with everyone eventually leaving. Yes, it's justice, but it still sucks for everyone.

I was confused as to who was technically in charge of Elysium after the reboot. Was it still President Patel? Did Spider make himself the President? The police robot just called him a "citizen," so I couldn't tell. And that's kind of a big deal.

Also I feel like if Elysium were to provide some of those healing machines to Earth they'd have had a lot less trouble with people trying to break in. I guess it could have been a way of trying to keep the population down there though. But maybe if they put a very limited amount of the machines on Earth then that would keep the struggles down there.

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  • From: Farmington, CT
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Re: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

Saw it, didn't love it. It certainly was pretty, I'll give it that. But most of the fight scenes were poorly edited, so it was tough to see what was going on. And pretty much every major plot beat felt totally arbitrary, like he was writing himself out of corners at every turn. Damon's sickness is basically just introduced to get the story going, and it has no bearing on the story beyond that. There's a ton of stuff that feels like that.

  Show
And the ending was just unforgivably stupid. The robot says, "Sorry, I cannot arrest a citizen of Elysium." So I guess Elysium has absolutely no crime whatsoever? And so what if Spider made everyone a citizen? All he did was change ONE WORD in the code. Will it really be that hard to change it back and deport him and Damon and the rest? But we're supposed to take this as a big heroic moment for the underclass. Overall, this movie needed another hour to flesh out its world. The audience is left having to take a whole lot for granted, and it's kind of unfair. I know it's a bad thing to put your movie's whole bible on screen, but can we at least have a little bit of that information? We know next to nothing about Elysium or Earth.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

I guess the general consensus about this film i'm seeing here points to a reason why I vacillate when it comes to whether I belong in a place like WAYDM.  You see, I tend to really enjoy a lot of the films that have been torn apart on this forum.  And so when a film i really love gets significantly taken apart and diminished in the eyes of reviewers here, its like a stab in the gut.  At the same time, though, I keep coming back to this site because most of my friends don't really get into the nitty gritty of a move and intelligently discuss it's merits....which you guys do here.    Gaaaahhh.  lol.   wink

So basically, I loved Elysium.  My couple little nitpicks had to do with

  Show
Delecourt's (Foster) gawd awful accent and fake attitude.  Usually Jodi is fantastic, so it struck me as odd that she would do such a poor job.  This probably points more to Blomkamp's direction than anything else.  Also there were a couple things about the technology that bothered me.  So, why didn't Elysium have their own anti-spacecraft spacestation-to-space missile system.  Why did they have to have Kruger use a shoulder-fired missile?  Also, why did the data download kill Damon, when it wouldn't have killed Fitchner?


Other than that, I felt that it instilled a fun level of tension throughout a majority of the film.  It really built up nicely, and viscerally(well if its Blomkamp, it will be) to a great emotional climax.  I liked that this film brought more quality aspects into its unfolding than a lot of films do these days.  The acting (except Foster...again WTF?) was just so much fun and really had some quality eccentricity.  Spyder was frikken Grover on crack.  Fitchner did a great job of doing the cold and calculating thing without over-doing it (which he tends to do), Damon was superb as always, all the supporting cast felt quite authentic, and Damon's boss was a real hate-able prick to boot.  The real Gem though was Kruger.  I just couldn't keep myself from grinning ear-to-ear whenever he was on screen. Copley really nailed the psychologically imbalanced badass role to a T and further.  big_smile     
The plot was predictable, but I think there's something to be said about standard plot lines done superbly well.   You see when a director can take the SAME PLOT-LINE and then tell two different but equally awesome stories with it...now that's some talent, and that's why i believe in Neill.

One of the things I really liked about this movie is the layering of themes.  Themes such as: the impetus of desperation, the lengths to which we will permit government surveillance, the desire of everyone for a good life, the power of greed...etc.  Additionally there were just some scenes that gave me the chills man.  big_smile.  The convergence of many different sources of awesome at certain points in the film led to this feeling.  Oh and good music too!

Also, I'm a Mechanical Engineer and totally a tech-head...so this movie was like TechGasm for me.  Zoinks!

All-in-all, its definitely the best film I've seen in the past 365 days.  Its not the best film ever, but will absolutely go in my blu-ray collection.   8.5/10

Last edited by Hastings (2013-08-14 05:50:39)

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  • Trey
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Re: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

The reason why Foster's performance didn't work was

SPOILER Show
she didn't have any compelling reason to be doing the things she did - she was just a jerk.   

Likewise, the entire have/have-not dynamic didn't work because there was no plausible reason shown for it.   Based on what we were shown, the citizens of Elysium were just being dicks to the rest of humanity for no particular reason.

Here's a good article that explains why the economics of the movie don't make sense:  ‘Elysium’ Wants To Be A Lacerating Movie About Health Care, But It Has No Idea Why Inequality Exists

Elysium is just as well-made as District 9 - more so, even - and although both are about one group oppressing another until the oppressed fight back, District 9 was much clearer thematically.  In D9, humans oppress aliens because the aliens are downright disgusting and mostly inexplicable, and the humans are simply stuck with them with no good idea what do about it.   The humans were clearly the "bad guys", but even so you understood why both sides did what they did.

But in Elysium the "bad guys" have magic machines that instantly cure all illness.  Everyone has one and they've got hundreds more in reserve.  There's no scarcity, or visible downside or cost or side effect to using the magic machines... and yet for (reasons?) the sky people won't let the dirt people have a single one. 

There are so many compelling things they could have done with that premise, though.  What if Elysium can't shoot down boarders because they don't have weapons, because they're all peaceful and loving Utopian types who don't know how awful life is elsewhere.   But Jodie Foster's character has been charged with protecting this Utopia... and she resorts to whatever means she has to, a la Nicholson in A Few Good Men.  They need her on that wall, they just don't want to know what she does to protect them.  Maybe she doesn't  like doing what she does, either.

Or, show us a good reason why Earth can't have magic medi-machines, and have the characters actually have to figure out how to fix that situation.  Or ultimately realize that it can't be fixed, because resources are finite and everybody can't have everything because there isn't enough of it.

These are all issues we deal with today - we like it when terrorist attacks are prevented, but we don't like drone strikes and NSA wiretaps... or at least we'd rather not know about them.    We think it's really sad when there's a famine or a genocide in Africa, but most of us don't rush over there to help or sell our cars to feed African orphans either.   

So the movie could have dealt with the whole issue of scarcity and poverty in a smart, relatable way, but instead it just resorted to having the sky people be doodyheads who need to be slapped around and blown up until they share their surplus toys.

And even so... it IS one of the best sci-fi movies of the summer, right up there with so-close-to-awesome Oblivion.

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  • From: Farmington, CT
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Re: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

The reason why Foster's performance didn't work in my eyes had less to do with character motivation and more to do with that stupid accent and her over-affected line deliveries.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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  • From: Van Dieman's Land
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Re: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

It just opened in Britain and I was in the first session of the day. What a stunning looking movie. Neil Blomkamp struck gold when Peter Jackson took him under his wing. Give this man more $100M+ budgets. Yes, it's up there with Oblivion for best movie of the year. Both are:

Original sci-fi premises
Stunning to look at
Awesome production design - making it re-watchable for that reason alone
Superb VFX - ships & robots & Elysium
Thumping good score

There are other similarities:

  Show
1. In both movies, the objective is to reach an orbiting station around Earth.
2. Humanity is saved by a Christ-like lead that sacrifices himself. Matt Damon even gets a 'spear' in his side. Tom Cruise is resurrected.
3. Dangerous robots
4. Friendship with woman from past rekindled in crisis
5. Cool ships

Things that were confusing:

  Show
1. Why did Max have to sacrifice himself to upload the data? Heard of a thumb-drive?
2. Why was the code first scrambled and useless, and then useful?
3. Given Max was sick with radiation poisoning and dying in 60 hours, his many wounds healed fast.
4. Kruger's sudden beef with Foster/Max. The whole section from the crash-landing until the break-out was confusing. Were Kruger's henchmen fugitives too? Why didn't they just kill the woman instead of throwing her in an armoury? What was the deal with Max in the gimp mask?
5. Fight scenes - too close, too quickly edited. Couldn't tell what was really happening.
6. Aren't surface to space missiles dangerous if they're aimed at ships in front of a giant space station?
7. No explanation about why the poor couldn't also have the magic med machines.

Things that could have improved it:

  Show
1. At 109 minutes, it was little short and relentless. It could have had a breather every now and then with more establishing time on Earth and Elysium.
2. Fewer WWE punch-up fights between mechwarriors. We're veering into superhero v supervillain territory.
3. Clearer 3rd act: motivations, and Elysium politics.
4. Show Matt Damon doing a car score to get into see the hackers.
5. Young girl needs to look sick.

not long to go now...

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Re: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

I finally got around to watching this, I agree with ow Teague summed it up. Really good but missing something.

One thing i felt it needed was seeing what Life was life on Elysium to mirror Damons life.

We see Foster having a house party with a robot serving wine and some random establishing shot but we dont get more than broad strokes about what life if like there.

I also had problems with the character of 'Spider' he seems to be making good money sending ships up to be shot down in front of Elysium and yet when he see's the code Max has in his head he becomes a revolutionary?

It's a really good movie but just falls short of being as good as District 9.

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Re: Elysium [Spoilers Marked]

Finally saw it, and you guys are being way too kind. It's forgettable and mediocre at best.

That't it, it's over folks. No one knows how to make sci-fi action movies anymore. If the guy who made District 9 can botch it like this, with basically full creative control, an R-rating, and 100 million dollar budget, it ain't happening.

What's funny is that it fails in exactly the opposite way that I thought it would. Going in, I figured it'd be overly preachy and push the 99% thing agenda, when in fact it ends up underplaying and mostly abandoning that stuff in favor of being an action movie. Which I would've been totally fine with, a hard-R relentless action movie from the guy who did the crazy awesome District-9 finale...bring it on. What I didn't expect though, is how much it FAILS at being an action movie. I count 2 action set-pieces in this whole thing (you could count the shuttle crash bit as #3, but it lasts about 30 seconds), totalling maybe 15 minutes, almost all of it shot close-up and completely incomprehensible. The big finale fight is so underwhelming, hard to follow, and BORING, it absolutely kills me. Compare that with what James Cameron did in the finale of The Terminator, for like 5 million dollars, and it's not even close.

That's the weird thing with this movie, much like District 9, it wants to be a combination social-commentary back-drop, and intense violent action film, but unlike District 9, it fails at both the commentary (by abandoning it and having a main story that really doesn't make any goddamn sense) and the action (which is way too infrequent and forgettable). I'd say it starts out great for about 40 minutes, up through the 1st heist sequence, which I actually think is really good. Then, when it should be ramping up and upping the ante, it goes into a super routine and boring climax. I think there'd be a lot less complaints about the holes in the story if the movie really knocked you on your ass at the end. They've setup Copley as this demented crazy antagonist, how about

SPOILER Show
Damon's suit gets stripped away, and him and the girl have to try to escape and defeat this crazed mech-suit powered bad guy as Damon is getting progressively weaker and weaker.

This gets me thinking on what the hell has happened to memorable set-pieces in movies. Look at a movie like the original Total Recall. That's got a great sci-fi premise, full of twists and turns and sly commentary. But I can also list off at least 6 memorable action sequences, each with some unique setting, or weapon, or adversary. And it all fits into 2 hours, while doing plenty of world-building, and establishing way more characters than Elysium does.

Frankly, I don't know where all the runtime is going, but it feels like the movie is just spinning it's wheels for large chunks.

SPOILER Show
They could start by losing the AWFUL AWFUL "you're destined for greatness" flashback sequences and the terrible scenes with Alice Braga's daughter.

I will say though, visually, it is fucking outstanding. Flawless vfx work throughout.

Last edited by bullet3 (2013-08-31 07:21:22)

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