Topic: Return of the Jedi thoughts.

Hey not-on-the-podcast forum folks: how do you feel about Jedi?

Give us some opinions to discuss.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Return of the Jedi thoughts.

Not the best that it could be. I feel like Empire promised a much different movie, one that was darker and more character-driven. That said, there are things that I love about Jedi, Jabba being chief among them, but I hate every single thing about Endor. The final battle with the Emperor almost redeems it, but not fully.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: Return of the Jedi thoughts.

I love it. I even love the ewoks. Fuck you, ewok haters. Yub yub!

Decidedly not in favor of Hayden Christensen appearing at the end.

EDIT: I'll also say I don't like that Boba Fett was clumsied to death.

Last edited by Zarban (2011-01-06 00:13:26)

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: Return of the Jedi thoughts.

My thoughts were always that the acting just wasn't as good. Leia especially, like when Luke tells her they're siblings. I just don't see a real emotion there smile Never had a problem with Ewoks, as I never took the universe all that seriously to start with. It wasn't a repeat of a previous plot, always a plus.
(I was born in 1969, as age and context is always important in this kind of thing)

I write stories! With words!
http://www.asstr.org/~Invid_Fan/

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Re: Return of the Jedi thoughts.

2 things i remember from the original viewing: The way the speeder chase unfolds felt like a video game. Like they were setting up the game tie-in. The first time i felt cynical about SW. And the 2nd deathstar was underwhelming.

I don't hate ewoks in general but there's way too much of them in this movie. They throw great parties, though. The scene with Carrie Fisher and that first ewok is wrong somehow - she'd be a lot more imperious, and might straightup murder it on the spot. Her voice is low in Jedi, was she a chain smoker back then?

DIF might as well do the special ed, nobody cares that much about jedi and it'd give you a chance to talk about the special ed's in general. Next up, Caravan of Courage: An Ewok Adventure!

edit: There's stuff i like too. Luke's a real Jedi (but not really: "Last mistake you'll ever make." "Hohoho.")
The slavegirl bikini. Nuff said.
R2 as an undercover agent working as a waiter. I swear to God someone needs to write a Chinatown caliber story with R2 as the gumshoe. Zarban when you're finished with ManBat vs Clam Demon could you get on that please?

Last edited by beldar (2011-01-06 07:43:57)

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Re: Return of the Jedi thoughts.

Invid wrote:

It wasn't a repeat of a previous plot, always a plus.

Interesting. One of the negatives I've heard about ROTJ is precisely that it IS something of a rehash of the original, what with it being another Death Star and such.

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Re: Return of the Jedi thoughts.

I was talking about the Ewoks. Never before had the heros actually cared about the native population of a planet smile

I write stories! With words!
http://www.asstr.org/~Invid_Fan/

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Re: Return of the Jedi thoughts.

I know, I know, Ewoks.  But when I think of that movie, all I can think of is Vader and Luke and the Emperor in the throne room, and Vader's redemption.  That is a perfect ending to the franchise and it's just god damned awesome.

Oh, and talk about that space battle, cuz it was awesome.

When.

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Re: Return of the Jedi thoughts.

Kyle wrote:

Oh, and talk about that space battle, cuz it was awesome.

Yes, sir. All those height-of-pre-cgi-vfx TIE fighters racing past us (just before Doomed Asian Dude screamed "There's too many of them!") was a thing of beauty. Just pretend you didn't see the infestation of matte lines.

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Re: Return of the Jedi thoughts.

beldar wrote:

The way the speeder chase unfolds felt like a video game. Like they were setting up the game tie-in.

Well, it's practically a direct lift of Ms Pac-Man.

beldar wrote:

The scene with Carrie Fisher ... Her voice is low in Jedi, was she a chain smoker back then?

She was very young when she did Star Wars. So by Jedi, her balls had dropped.

beldar wrote:

R2 as an undercover agent working as a waiter. I swear to God someone needs to write a Chinatown caliber story with R2 as the gumshoe. Zarban when you're finished with ManBat vs Clam Demon could you get on that please?

First, ManBat vs Clam Demon? That's awesome! You'll get a "story by" credit. Second, 2D3D: Droid Runner is on its way! We'll give him a fedora-shaped dome, a pop-out revolver, and a "bad motivator" that makes him puff smoke from time to time.

Wait. Suddenly, that sounds less crazy stupid than crazy awesome.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: Return of the Jedi thoughts.

Zarban wrote:

a "bad motivator" that makes him puff smoke from time to time.

Crazy awesome is right.

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Re: Return of the Jedi thoughts.

Tagline: "This Droid is Looking for YOU"

WHERES MY OSCAR

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Re: Return of the Jedi thoughts.

Return of the Jedi is probably the weakest entry in the OT, but it still has some great moments. All the Luke and Vader stuff is right up there amongst the best of Star Wars and the space battle, oh my. There's a shot of a few fighters flying across the Death Star surface, an X-wing darting in and around towers and pylons and then diving into the superstructure entrance that is just... fucking brilliant.

It's hands down the best special effects shot of the entire series (and possibly ever).

For the commentary, I guess you could talk about the aborted sequel trilogy and Lucas' growing ennui over Star Wars, about Lucas' divorce and its effect on the editing, about the transformation of Star Wars into a merchandise-driven enterprise, about how the experience of ESB changed Lucas' approach and resulted in him getting gun-for-hire Richard Marquand instead of someone who would make the film their own... also, you could probably mention how Lucas ended Star Wars prematurely to go on to make other 'independment art' films and yet 30 years later he's done nothing else in his career but exploit Star Wars in some way or another (and Indiana Jones).

In terms of storytelling, Jedi is a bit of an oddity because it doesn't really follow the 3-act structure. It's first half is like an extended James Bond intro, with the heroes all getting involved in an adventure that has very little to do with the main plot. It's only at the midpoint of the film that we are told what this story is about, ruining the Emperor's day and winning the war. And I find that unusual.

Performance-wise, in this one it's Ford and Fisher that don't do quite so well, whilst Hamill knocks it out of the park. Ian McDiarmid's Emperor was a truly terrifying character and I distinctly remember that it was him more than anything else in Star Wars that scared me, the way he grits his teeth as he's killing Luke in particular. It's not a subtle performance, but it's definitely minimalist - which is the complete opposite from his acting in the prequel trilogy where it's over the top and almost pantomime.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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Re: Return of the Jedi thoughts.

I wonder if you guys think there's any validity to the argument that Lucas changed the OT because of some agreement made during the divorce.

Basically, the argument goes: Lucas changed the OT just enough so legally speaking they were considered to be different movies than what was originally released.  The reason for doing so was to keep all the money made off the movies for himself, or at least as much of it as possible since Fox would still get a sizable amount for the first movie.  I assume we are talking about some sort of deal which states whenever the star wars movies are sold, Marcia Lucas gets a percentage of the money made. 

  Sounds somewhat logical, but it also doesn't quite work.  I've come to the conclusion that this argument is baloney, but it might make or an entertaining bit on the podcast.  I guess you guys can get into speculating on why Lucas made the changes he did to the Special editions of the Trilogy. I kinda think that some of it was just a "fuck you" to Marcia because there are specific cuts that I remember reading Marcia said wouldn't work .

Last edited by switch (2011-01-07 18:01:34)

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Re: Return of the Jedi thoughts.

redxavier wrote:

... also, you could probably mention how Lucas ended Star Wars prematurely to go on to make other 'independment art' films and yet 30 years later he's done nothing else in his career but exploit Star Wars in some way or another (and Indiana Jones).

It's just that the other stuff hasn't worked. He wanted WILLOW to become the next Star Wars. You know he did. If somehow that had blown up the way Lord of the Rings did we'd be talking a whole different Lucas (and maybe Ron Howard, who knows). THAT should be the commentary that follows up Jedi.

I write stories! With words!
http://www.asstr.org/~Invid_Fan/

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Re: Return of the Jedi thoughts.

Ah, Willow, what a fun little mess of a movie that is.

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Re: Return of the Jedi thoughts.

well, from an effects standpoint, Willow gave use morphing...

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Re: Return of the Jedi thoughts.

Sure there are projects that Lucas has been involved in, Tucker, Howard the Duck, and Willow all come to mind - but none were the art films that Lucas said he longed to do (and all were dismal failures) and none were directorial efforts and saw only peripheral involvement. Though I have a soft spot for Willow. "I love you Sorsha? I don't love her, she kicked me in the face!"

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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Re: Return of the Jedi thoughts.

switch wrote:

well, from an effects standpoint, Willow gave use morphing...


Indeed, it ws groundbreaking for it's time. I remember seeing it in the cinema back in 1988 and I loved it smile

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Re: Return of the Jedi thoughts.

The one non-Star Wars project that I was always amazed was directly connected to Lucas that I really loved growing up was Radioland Murders.

Such an odd project to be connected to, but did evoke that period of time that he seems to revel in.

Not much by way of impressive effects work, some matte paintings, but a good fun film as I was growing up, as one who was already immersed in theatre.

See what I've worked on recently here:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2869151/
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Re: Return of the Jedi thoughts.

beldar wrote:

R2 as an undercover agent working as a waiter. I swear to God someone needs to write a Chinatown caliber story with R2 as the gumshoe. Zarban when you're finished with ManBat vs Clam Demon could you get on that please?

Now available for the first time anywhere!

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries