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Marionettes are a subset of puppets. They're the ones with strings.
Always wanted to use this 
Also, we all knew it was inevitable 
Uhm, I know that technically marionettes are a subset of puppets, but isn't that a line from that movie you guys WAYDM'd a couple of weeks back? And wasn't Trey the one who said "I like that guy, he knows the difference"...?
Anyway, I should have been more specific that I didn't mean marionettes in my question, coz there are several marionette films. I was not referring to those.
"Meet the Feebles" still quality, though. I hadn't thought of that. Never seen it.
/Z
Last edited by MasterZap (2013-09-12 06:53:00)
The difference being that puppets with strings are properly called marionettes, yes. One is the genus and the other is the species. There are also hand puppets, rod puppets, stick puppets, shadow puppets, etc.
Sesame Street-type Muppets are usually hand-and-rod puppets, even though Muppet is a combination of "marionette" and "puppet". The name doesn't actually mean anything but it's memorable and that's what matters in a brand name. I assume Roduppets didn't sound as good.
But I'd be surprised if there aren't marionettes in Dark Crystal somewhere. I may not remember the movie that well, but I paid more attention to the making-of documentaries and books, and they pretty much used every kind of puppet. Quite a few are actually costume characters (yet another species - one that some puppeteers don't even consider to BE puppets although I'm okay with it).
So I don't think you can define any movie more precisely than "all-puppet" since it's a pretty good bet that there's going to be a mix of puppet techniques on display. We used rod puppets in Team America every chance we got, because marionettes are kind of a pain in the ass.
I ran across this the other day. It's a cosplay for a Skeksis done as a full worn costume, and it's pretty badass.
I imagine the actual Henson ones were done similarly.
More pics and a couple making of posts:
http://tawnyscostumesandcuriosities.tum … ed/skeksis
Last edited by BigDamnArtist (2013-09-12 07:30:16)
So I don't think you can define any movie more precisely than "all-puppet" since it's a pretty good bet that there's going to be a mix of puppet techniques on display. We used rod puppets in Team America every chance we got, because marionettes are kind of a pain in the ass.
Ok, whatever, wasn't the point. The point being... it's one of the few movies in a style where most people would be tempted to put in a human or two (e.g. "Labyrinth") but Henson didn't. And I'm happy for it....!
Okay? Better?
Though of course there are borderline shots (notably the one with Jen running from behind) that is clearly a child in a costume...
So.... are we doing this?
I don't want to inconveniate y'all. If you can't you can't. Just let me know sooner rather than later!
But Wednesday next week would be when I a) have (some) time and b) need to be kept awake . . . unless my schedule changes. Which... it may. Sadly.
/Z
Well, the movie skekses are puppeteered muppet-style, with the sets built about 6 feet off the ground. So the hunch in their backs isn't nearly as exaggerated as it is here, since the cosplayer has to fit in the costume without the benefit of a recessed floor. Clever way around the problem though, and a nice costume regardless.
Well, the movie skekses are puppeteered muppet-style, with the sets built about 6 feet off the ground. So the hunch in their backs isn't nearly as exaggerated as it is here, since the cosplayer has to fit in the costume without the benefit of a recessed floor. Clever way around the problem though, and a nice costume regardless.
Alright, that makes sense. I figured it would be one or the other.
Like I said, I haven't seen the movie, so my memory of what the Skeksis look like is limited at best.
In the wide shots pretty much every character becomes a costume character - I know the Skeksis, the Garthim and the Landstriders were all people in suits. Gelflings too, I imagine, though I barely remember them.
I think the main difference between the closeup Skeksis and the wide shot Skeksis was that in the closeups the puppeteers didn't have to be in that backbreaking crouched position.
I think the main difference between the closeup Skeksis and the wide shot Skeksis was that in the closeups the puppeteers didn't have to be in that backbreaking crouched position.
You sound like you talk from experience
The Mystics were particularily back-breaking, having to do the head with one outstretched arm, and the hand with another. Lucky they had a walking-stick to lean on....
/Z
And always at least two puppeteers under the hood: Four arms.
Ok, whatever, wasn't the point. The point being... it's one of the few movies in a style where most people would be tempted to put in a human or two (e.g. "Labyrinth") but Henson didn't. And I'm happy for it....!
Unfortunately, it probably shares with Fantasia the fate of doing so poorly it killed the idea. Disney swore after Fantasia he'd never do a film aimed solely at adults, despite that being where he really wanted to take things, and Henson put a human in Labyrinth after the blowback from Dark Crystal. Oh, if only Dark Crystal had done well, the things Henson might have done...
MasterZap wrote:Ok, whatever, wasn't the point. The point being... it's one of the few movies in a style where most people would be tempted to put in a human or two (e.g. "Labyrinth") but Henson didn't. And I'm happy for it....!
Unfortunately, it probably shares with Fantasia the fate of doing so poorly it killed the idea. Disney swore after Fantasia he'd never do a film aimed solely at adults, despite that being where he really wanted to take things, and Henson put a human in Labyrinth after the blowback from Dark Crystal. Oh, if only Dark Crystal had done well, the things Henson might have done...
Not to derail the thread, but I wonder if that is why Brian Henson took on Farscape. Much of the creature work on there was really to demonstrate the full ability of the Henson studio, including having two main characters as products of their Creature Shop.
One creature (and the inspiration for my research) is similar to Dark Crystal creation. Check it out:
Spoilered due to being image heavy but here is the website for your browsing pleasure:
http://www.karlsweb.com/karlswebbehindt … P-Main.htm
Rygel (main character)
Well, Farscape was 17 years after Dark Crystal, and in those 17 years the Creature Shop did Labyrinth, the Dinosaurs tv show, the Ninja Turtles movies and a slew of other things. I dunno how much there was left to prove by the time they got to Farscape.
And even Dark Crystal was pretty much universally acknowledged as a great technical and design achievement for the Creature Shop and Brian Froud etc... it just didn't catch on with audiences. For me, I remember the coffee-table books were far more interesting than the movie itself.
For me, I remember the coffee-table books were far more interesting than the movie itself.
You go too far sir! Retract or I shall demand recompense for your malicious slander.
So aaanyway... are we doing this, or are we not?
I'll be in the Best Western Hollywood Hotel starting from late Tuesday night...
Best Western Hollywood Plaza Inn Hotel
2011 North Highland Avenue,
Hollywood CA 90068
I have no idea if this is near or far from WYDM microphones or not
/Z
So aaanyway... are we doing this, or are we not?
I'll be in the Best Western Hollywood Hotel starting from late Tuesday night...
Best Western Hollywood Plaza Inn Hotel
2011 North Highland Avenue,
Hollywood CA 90068
I have no idea if this is near or far from WYDM microphones or not
/Z
That's a Teague question. But I can say that your hotel is about 5 miles from FIYH Central and it's an easy route to get from one to the other, so that shouldn't be a problem.
If Teague says we're doing this then I'll give it the movie second watch and see how it compares to my memory of it from 30 years ago.
*Baffle* Damn, has it been that long?
That can't be right.
1982 was just the other week, wasn't it!!??
/Z
Sure, why not. We're recording The Dark Crystal on Wednesday night, everybody! Drinks all around!
+1
Woo! Livestream?
Sure thing.
Coolio... means I have to go find a copy of Dark Crystal to watch before wed...
Line-up looks like it'll be Me, Cloe Z, Zap, Trey.
A triumphant return and a podcast debut in one episode. This should be interesting. 
Zap, I'm gonna have to ask you to fake a posh British accent, just to confuse people. Thanks.
All right you bastards - I'm about to watch The Dark Crystal. A movie I have felt no desire to rewatch for thirty years.
Whatever happens, it's on you. See You Next Wednesday.
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