76 (edited by Dorkman 2012-05-13 10:15:11)

Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

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Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

It's important not to lose sight of the fact that, generally, all of us like feeling a bit sexy.

What's relevant is what we in an affluent Western society believe is sexy in men and women. Historically these have been very different standards, because the genders have played very different roles. We're beginning to see the start of the break down of those archetypes, and Jim Cameron / Ridley Scott with their strong female leads are partially to thank.

As Dorkman pointed out, ideal and sexual are different things. Ideals are never going to be something which doesn't exist, but a healthy, competent one is better than passive and weak. Sadly, donuts aren't your friend in any scenario.

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Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

Passive? Weak? Are these seriously adjectives we're supposed to believe describe Black Widow?

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Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

The discussion is about the poster, and gender roles in general, not the character. She's presenting.

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Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

I want to know what exactly Fury's plan was for getting Hulk in the Hulk Canister so he could be ejected from the airship, and how exactly he justified building said Hulk Canister into the airship in the first place.

Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

Kittens. Hulk pet.

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Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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83 (edited by BigDamnArtist 2012-05-13 15:54:11)

Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

But as soon as he was actually on board he was free range. So that can't be right.

And now I can't stop thinking about freerange hulks.

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

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I would never lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation.

Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

I think it's kinda dumb to argue about how Widow's dressed and posed. This is ostensibly a movie targeted at teenage / 20-something males. At the very least, it's based on books that are definitely targeted at that specific group. It shouldn't surprise anyone that they'd sexualize the one major female character. While the rest of the characters aren't necessarily sexualized, they're definitely idealized. The target demographic says "I want to be Cap, I want to be Hawkeye, I want to be Thor" but they don't say "I want to be Black Widow". They say "I want to be Thor and I want to fuck Black Widow".

If you don't like it, don't watch the movie. I like me some tits and ass, and I wish they made real exploitation movies and not all this politically-correct PG13 bullshit they make now. It's so hard to find good sleazy action movies today. Avengers one and only non PC thing is that poster. I've seen people complain that the other poster that shows her from the front is also sexist because the zipper on her shirt is partly open, but it's barely below her neckline. Meanwhile, every horror film for the last decade has had a full-on half-naked ass shot on the poster. The shitty part is that that's usually about as exploitative as most of those movies ever got as well.

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Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

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Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

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Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

I don't accept "that's just how it's always been" as the rationale behind any form of discrimination.

Yes, women have always been portrayed as sex objects in comic books to pander to young men. The entire culture treats women as sex objects to pander primarily to young men. That is precisely the problem at issue here.

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Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

I agree, I'm just saying this idea of stereotyping isn't unique to the comic book industry.

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Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

Sure. And I don't think anyone involved with the Avengers posing image or arguing from my side of the fence is advocating the idea that if only Black Widow weren't posing like that, sexism would be over. It's just if something is happening all the time everywhere you look, it's possible to become so inured to it you don't even notice. It's at the point where this kind of thing needs to be pointed out every time -- the poster in question being but one of many -- to actually shake things up and help people notice there's an issue. And there comes a point also where you have to say "Okay, from now on, no more passes on this." The poster just happens to have come out shortly after that line got drawn.

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Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

Black Widow in the poster isn't the most egregious example I've seen; to my eyes it seems the mock poster is making a mountain out of a molehill in this case. The feminine anterior pelvic tilt angle she displays is a lot more natural that in poses you find in women's magazines and real comic covers. The fashion industry thrives on poses that accentuate the female form - that's where the common comic book pose you see comes from.

But the problem I find here is that the mock poster then comically overexaggerates the tilt on the male characters - in poses that you'd never, ever find female characters being drawn in. Shame really, because instead of drawing attention to an issue seriously the artist chose instead to clown around.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

I wonder where Odin was while his kids lay waste to America? Honestly, patents these days. Never would have happened if they'd had a damn good clip around the ear instead of being sent to the naughty step.

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Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

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Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

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Re: #31 - Chat: The Avengers

Those who would trade liberties for securities, deserve neither liberties, nor securities.
-Benjamin Franklin

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