Topic: The Muppets. (Spoilers.) (I loved it.)

I don't have any spoilers myself, but I figure we'll go through that in the next few days.

I loved it, on a superficial level. I respect that Jason Segel seemed to have said "I get to do this?! Okay, my strategy is to get out of their way and let them Muppet the shit out of this." And Muppet they did. What an enjoyable nostalgia-fest.

If his intention was, and I dunno, but, if his intention was "the best way to do this is to make the thirtysomethings go OH MUPPETS, kids watch some of my old Muppet stuff!"...well done, sir. Not a great introduction to characters for newbies, but a great re-introduction for those already acquainted. Which in turn makes them all soft inside and figure out their own ways to introduce the Muppets to their kids.

I have more specific thoughts about the film at hand, but I'm more curious...how would you, strategy-wise, get say...a six year-old kid into the Muppets for the first time?

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Muppets. (Spoilers.) (I loved it.)

Easily the most anticipated movie of the year for me, but it's apparently not showing up over here until next year sometime.

I guess I'll have to turn to less legal ways of watching it, which is too bad because this is one of those rare movies I actually would go the theater for.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Muppets. (Spoilers.) (I loved it.)

Yeah, it's not out in the UK until February 10th sad

Stoopid Disney.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Muppets. (Spoilers.) (I loved it.)

That's a real shame. This was probably my favorite movie of the year.

"Most people don't even know what sysadmins do, but trust me, if they all took a lunch break at the same time they wouldn't make it to the deli before you ran out of bullets protecting your canned goods from roving bands of mutants."

-- http://stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks

Re: The Muppets. (Spoilers.) (I loved it.)

I can tel you that when Grayson hits three, he will get a steady diet of The Muppet Show on DVD.  Equally important is Sesame Street, which had muppett crossovers from time to time.  I was that age when I started watching both, and it instantly connected.  Same with my nieces and nephews. 

I can't stress the importance of Jim Henson's creations on my life.  I taught myself to read at age 3 by watching Sesame Street regularly.  I always felt like Walt Disney was this wizard who lived to create this magical empire.  It was okay that he was dead, because I had Jim Henson, who was as brilliant in my mind as Walt, and he was going to be the caretaker of my generation.  I was 12 when he died, and that was the first time where I was deeply saddened by the death of someone I did not know.  It really wasn't until Pixar came along that I felt like something was at least attempting to fill that gap.

Eddie Doty

Thumbs up +1 Thumbs down

Re: The Muppets. (Spoilers.) (I loved it.)

I found this quote from, iirc, the AP review in the local paper, interesting:
"The plot parallels the real-world state of the Muppets -- relics testing the waters to see if anyone will watch, if anyone still cares"

I write stories! With words!
http://www.asstr.org/~Invid_Fan/

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Muppets. (Spoilers.) (I loved it.)

[I wrote this up for my movie review blog post to go up this weekend, but I see no reason not to post it here early. And by the way, good work, Seth Brower.]

Early on in the film, in which the Muppets have all long since gone their separate ways but need to get the gang back together for One More Show, there’s a scene where Kermit (and his new friends Jason Segel, Amy Adams, and Segel’s Marty Stu muppet stand-in Walter) finds Fozzie (his voice somewhat off due to Frank Oz’s declining to participate in the film) singing with a knock-off Muppet cover band (the “Moopets”) in Reno. As he comes offstage, they greet him with forced, grimacey smiles and say (paraphrased) “Hey, your show was… it was great. Really good to see you.” They don’t mean the first part. But they mean the second with all their hearts.

The scene perfectly encapsulates my feelings about the film, as well as the film itself. The gang isn’t back together — some of them are the original members but several signifiant ones are impersonators (although, to be fair, much more credible ones than the Moopets); the original members, I care deeply about, and it hurts a little to see them veer so close to self-parody just to get another shot at entertaining an audience. The film is far too self-aware for my taste. It tries to be an 80s movie, complete with evil corporate villain whom they have to defeat by Putting On a Show, but it’s constantly nudge-winking the audience going “Hey, remember these movies? They were silly, right? We’re too cool for this room, you and me, but let’s play along, let them have their fun.” (Said corporate villain, for example, says “maniacal laugh” instead of laughing maniacally where a movie villain would do so.) For a film that thematically tries to make a point of rejecting cynicism, it’s a really jarring tonal choice.

I’m not against self-aware humor — CLOUDY WITH A CHANCE OF MEATBALLS, which I adore, is wall-to-wall with it — but it felt wrong here. I think it could have worked as parody if it were a parody of Muppet movies with parody Muppets. But it’s actually meant to be the Muppets as the Muppets, and they don’t always feel like they’re in on the joke.

It feels weird to be giving this film what amounts to a negative review when critics have praised it almost unanimously — lo, I am become Armond White, destroyer of flawless tomatometers. This is, to be sure, a far less demeaning film than MUPPETS FROM SPACE appeared to be (I could not even bring myself to see that one). This is a film that sprang, very clearly, from a place of deep love and affection, not one of simply monetizing a piece of intellectual property. Jason Segel loves the Muppets, he adores the Muppets, and I don’t begrudge him spending his get-things-made Hollywood capital to bring them back and share them with the world. But it feels like so much fan fiction, a fan film in which he’s inserted himself into Muppet canon and talked the Muppets into appearing as themselves (and Disney into bankrolling it).

And again, I don’t begrudge him. It’s inspiring, in a way, to see him live what I have no doubt was exactly the childhood dream he wrote as Walter’s, inspiring to see a film that feels like Segel reaching out to me and saying “You and I, we get this. These guys are awesome. Isn’t this awesome?” I don’t even watch How I Met Your Mother and I’ve barely seen Segel in anything, but I still feels like a buddy of mine got his dearest wish and I’m proud for him. You can see how much this means to him, even when he isn’t flat-out telling you so through Walter. Yet as with SUPER 8, it expends more effort reminding me of how awesome the other stuff is than actually being awesome itself. I don’t want movies to keep making me nostalgic for 20 years ago. I want movies that I can be nostalgic for 20 years from now.

At its best, the Muppets feel like themselves again (even when they’re not). The recreated Muppet Show intro number is a moment of real "they're back!" joy, brief as it is. But when Segel/Walter and their story insist on stepping into the spotlight, the Muppets are in turn forced out of it, and feel like they’re being commanded to behave in a different way, commanded to serve the film instead of the film serving them. For the first time in my life, I watched the Muppets and they felt like puppets.

This isn’t their lowest point, and it might even be the start of a new era. It’s a major Hollywood big-budget release, not some trashy Reno lounge; but it still isn’t quite where I would have wanted to find them, not what I’d want to see them having to do to prove their continued relevance, not after what they’ve meant to me. But goddammit, Muppets, for all of that: it’s really good to see you.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Muppets. (Spoilers.) (I loved it.)

I don't disagree with the core of what Dorkman said, Frank Oz-less Fozzie was the one voice that really jarred me a bit, but overall I think my inner Muppet fan was just to happy to see a respectful revival and not another "lets to Wizard of Oz with the star of the month and Muppets" that it completely won me over.

Not to say that I don't think some of the pacing was a just bit off in a few places, not sure if it was the editing something more in the script, and some of the DI that was done (specifically noticed as it was on a few of my shots) seemed a bit hamfisted and out of place.

As to the original question ... there is an abundance of older Henson to expose a child to if you don't want to try and throw them right into the new movie, but ... I think a lot of the original show as GREAT as it is might go past some of the kids these days. The variety show format lends itself to the option to pick and choose some of the guests that might appeal, for a "best of" that could be gone back to and expanded upon if the interest was there. But when it comes down to it, I say start with "The Muppet Movie" it truly went along with the core plotline of introducing each of the core Muppets in their own vignette and you get to see them interacting at a level that most fans will agree is hard to match.

But overall I am really happy that it is out, both as a viewer and fan of the Muppets, and as someone who got to work on it.

See what I've worked on recently here:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2869151/
And ways to get in touch with me at:
http://www.google.com/profiles/SethBrower

Re: The Muppets. (Spoilers.) (I loved it.)

Having now done exactly that - introducing a six year old (and a three year old) - by watching The Muppet Movie the night before going to see the Muppets, I have to partly disagree with Michael. Nothing in the Muppets eclipses the fourth wall breaking of the original movie. Remember, in The Muppet Movie, Kermit gives the Electric Mayhem Band a copy of the script which they use to track down Kermit and Fozzie later in the movie.

That said, there are definitely rough spots to it. The maniacal laugh bit, as mentioned, doesn't work. Mainly because they don't tell us at the beginning that he does it because he can't actually maniacally laugh. And his rap number - I don't even what.

And there is an awkard switching between the muppets and Segel/Walter/Adams. The Segel/Walter/Adams side feels under developed and incomplete, likely because they (Segel/Stoller I mean) wanted the movie to be just the muppets as much as you and I, but were required by the studio to bank it with real stars, as is reflected in the movie's plot (which is such a great use of leaning on the fourth wall that I'll forgive any fourth wall bits that may not have been as subtle). One thing that I did love was openly acknowledging the musical form. "I can't just go back, I just got finished singing a whole song about it."

Ultimately, it got me the cynical 20-something to the emotional place I wanted to go and I think my niece and nephew both enjoyed it (though my niece vehemently denies being a muppet when accused). It ain't a masterpiece and it doesn't go on the perfect movie shelf, but it kept the promises I think it was making.

Re: The Muppets. (Spoilers.) (I loved it.)

Dorkman wrote:

Fozzie (his voice somewhat off due to Frank Oz’s declining to participate in the film.

Apparently the same Muppeteer also did Miss Piggy... Was that more on-target, voice-wise?

For me, even though it's been 20 years now, I'm still not used to Steve Whitmire as the "new" Kermit.

Re: The Muppets. (Spoilers.) (I loved it.)

I've been watching The Muppet Show recently on youtube for the first time(awesome btw), and while watching the movie, i really couldn't tell the difference between new and old voices.

Protection and power are overrated. I think you are very wise to choose happiness and love. -Uncle Iroh

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Muppets. (Spoilers.) (I loved it.)

Eric Jacobson now does Fozzie and Piggy, he has done since 2000 when Oz retired. I have heard him perform them in tv specials and on albums (what can I say, I'm a fan) and I've got used to it, though you can tell a slight difference.

Frank Oz as Fozzie-

Eric Jacobson as Fozzie-

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Muppets. (Spoilers.) (I loved it.)

And Oz as Piggy-

And Jacobson-

Judge for yourselves smile

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Muppets. (Spoilers.) (I loved it.)

Yeah, I think those videos basically speak for themselves.

Posted from my iPad
http://trek.fm

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Muppets. (Spoilers.) (I loved it.)

They need to put the new dude on a steady diet of whiskey and cigars.


- Branco

Thumbs up +1 Thumbs down

Re: The Muppets. (Spoilers.) (I loved it.)

maybeeee fozzie, but overall... meh

Protection and power are overrated. I think you are very wise to choose happiness and love. -Uncle Iroh

Thumbs up Thumbs down