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Friends In Your Head | Forums → Off Topic → Is there a God and why?
You think Westboro wouldn't LOVE to throw some folk up on the rack if they could get away with it? The only reason there's been "progress" is because our society has steadily been willing to put up with less and less of religion's (specifically Christianity's) crap over the centuries. Take a look at fundamentalist Islamic countries, though. Shit still happens daily. I literally cannot ever go to Dubai because I would be at risk of arrest or worse for being openly gay.
Coming back to something mentioned earlier, does religion form the basis of ethics?
My first instinct would be to say "no, empathy does", but I say that after growing up with some religious framework imposed by the world around me, if not at home.
Not to go back to the WBC again, but if religion truly made up our basis of ethics, no one would ever have a reason to leave somewhere like WBC, because that's what they grew up knowing. And yet we have interviews with the kids that escaped from the WBC and they talk about how they didn't want to be doing it anymore because they were hurting people. Which i think is pretty solid evidence for empathy overriding religion.
I'll see if I can dig up the interview I saw with the ex-WBC kids.
**It's 2021 now and I hate everything I've said in this thread.**
It's still a common belief that religion gets the credit for our morality.
The revolution in humanitarian rights (democracy, equality, welfare, abolition, education for all, etc) came out of the Enlightenment: mainly free-thinkers, deists, secularists, etc. Paine, Voltaire, Mill, Hobbes, Hume, Locke, Spinoza, Diderot, etc.
Of course, you can cherry-pick the Bible for the good-bits and ignore the bad bits, but in doing so you're already applying a pre-existing value system that does the filtering. It's reversing cause and effect. You could do the same filtering with a Tolkien book.
But bizarrely religion gets the credit, even though it's been the cause of holding back moral progress for many centuries (slavery, racism, monarchy, misogyny, homophobia, cruel punishments, etc). Studied closely, the Bible has an Iron Age moral code that has no place today. The fact that even religious people regularly dismiss large tracts of it is telling. And the further we progress (e.g. gay rights in the 21st century), the greater the parts of the Bible that have to be swept under the carpet as embarrassing to believers.
If one does something charitable, you might be complimented by someone else saying "that was very christian of you", such is the success of the PR.
Regarding the earlier chart, I believe it's exaggerating for comic effect, but there is an element of truth to it in that there was a period of stagnation in the West and it did occur in tandem with a period of Christian dominance. But that doesn't imply causation and there were numerous other reasons at play. I think you could possibly make a case that fear of persecution restricted early scientific endeavours or made some reluctant to release their findings (even Darwin proved reluctant centuries later), but that's true for any society in which the status quo is threatened, not just a Christian one.
It would be fascinating though if some monk wrote down similar thoughts on evolution 500 years before Darwin.
**It's 2021 now and I hate everything I've said in this thread.**
Friends In Your Head | Forums → Off Topic → Is there a God and why?
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