Topic: Super 8 - Spoilers!

So, can we talk about this?

Holy shit.

Hoooooooooooooooooly shit.

Great visual storytelling, an awesome story, well-rounded characters with great payoffs. Perfect movie? I think so. The creature effects reminded me a lot of Jurassic Park. Did anyone else think that the creature looked like the Cloverfield monster with some extra arms?

Also, I had a Dorkman moment (fuck you spellcheck, Dorkman IS a word!) about halfway through the movie, similar to his experience with the first Pirates movie. I was sitting in the theater, and I thought to myself, "If they don't show this zombie movie they're making during the end credits, this movie has failed." So well done, Super 8. Well done.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Super 8 - Spoilers!

I loved the hell out of it. I thought the creature design could have been a little better but I was thoroughly impressed with just about everything else. Easily my favorite movie of the year thus far.

Re: Super 8 - Spoilers!

Doctor Submarine wrote:

Perfect movie? I think so.

Sorry, I have to rule against you on this one. I enjoyed the film a great deal myself, it's exciting and funny and the pacing, at least in the first two acts, held me rapt. But a "perfect movie" -- as we use the term -- isn't a measure of how enjoyable a film is. It's a measure of whether or not there's a solid payoff for every set-up (aka "keeping every promise it makes"), and this movie fails to do so in some significant ways.

For one thing, the friggin super 8 film from which the movie takes its title. The setup is that the kids have inadvertently gotten footage of the subject of a major government cover-up. You'd think that the reel of film containing this highly sensitive information would be, like, important to the plot. You'd think a great big chunk of the plot would be the government trying to find and suppress this information. That's how it was sold. That's how it's set up. It's the name of the movie.

But...no. The super 8 film reel with the alien on it actually has almost no bearing on the story. We already know it's a creature by the time it's revealed, and the more significant revelation comes later, watching the teacher's old footage. The government really never discovers or cares that the film exists. The only thing it really does is convince the main character's dad that some serious shit is going down, which 1) he already kind of figured out, just without the monster part, and 2) happens offscreen.

That little reel of evidence should have been the film's MacGuffin. Have the government turning more and more fascist on this little town trying to cover up this info that they can't ultimately suppress. And/or, have the government confiscate the footage without the kids knowing why, and so they go on a single-minded, irrational Goonies mission to get it back from Big Gubmint because goddammit, that was the END OF THE MOVIE and we CAN'T AFFORD TO RESHOOT. And in the process they unravel this conspiracy and end up helping the alien get home.

Instead, as it happened, if the super 8 film hadn't caught the creature -- if the kids hadn't been present at the crash at all -- very little would have to be altered to make essentially the same movie.

Next item. As soon as they found all that footage in the teacher's trailer and they heard the bit about how the touch produces a psychic connection and a two-way understanding between creature and human captive, it was obvious (to me, anyway) that the alien was going to touch the main kid, realize that some humans are good and pure, and chill the fuck out.

But when it happened, it didn't actually have an effect on the plot. The alien was already just minutes away from reconstituting his ship; the kids (and we) already knew that the alien was just homesick and misunderstood. Nothing was actually accomplished by having that moment between kid and alien, other than that it prevented the alien from eating his head. But if he hadn't been there at all, the alien would still have reconstituted his ship and departed exactly when he did. If the kids had not been involved in the plot at all -- if they had simply not existed -- it would all still have turned out the same for the "alien vs air force" plotline. That's not good plotting.

Okay, there was a little bit of something about the kid finally understanding, in that moment, that you have to let go of the past; but other than having the locket he wasn't really emotionally crippled by his grief, not particularly filled with resentment or despair, not letting the past cast a shadow on his present or future. He was happy and active and fun to be around, probably the most well-adjusted character in the entire film. In this case it's a payoff without much setup.

I think the psychic connection moment should have come at the end of act 2, not act 3, and represented the turning point from the kids seeing the alien as a monster, like everyone else does, to understanding and deciding to help it (which they didn't do in any meaningful sense at all). Instead this movie, which has been built as a mystery, loses a lot of its steam because the mystery is answered and there's not much left for the movie/characters to do, aside from the save-the-damsel plot device. There was some interest in seeing the kids help the alien, but again, they ultimately didn't do anything to that end.

I probably would have had the little ship-cube stay in the boy's room instead of shooting across town (why even have the kid take the cube? It's another thing that had no purpose in the story. Aside from that we knew something was up with the water tower, but what did that gain us? They found the creature's lair through the cemetery, not the tower). Then the kids would have to go back into the quarantined town and get the last cube so the alien could finally put his ship together (because he'd need every single piece, naturally) and leave.

(BTW, if the air force is trying to prevent the alien from reconstituting his ship, has been doing this as its full-time concern for the last 40 years, why did they drive the all the trucks full of ship-cubes into the center of the quarantined area where they knew the alien to be at large? For that matter, why would they transport them on the same train in the first place? Durr.)

It's a fun summer movie. I enjoyed it. It's exciting and well-made on a technical level and I like the characters. I'd watch it again and buy the Blu-Ray and watch the featurettes and probably even listen to the commentaries, which I rarely do. But no. It's not a perfect movie by a long shot.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Super 8 - Spoilers!

As you posted on Twitter, Abrams films are often full of fridge logic. And as I've been thinking more and more about it, I'm starting to agree. I don't care so much that the super 8 movie wasn't that important. Yeah, it wasn't sold that way, but it is what it is, and I don't have a problem with that. I did have a problem with the fact that the kids had so little bearing on the story. You could pretty much cut them out of the movie entirely and the plot wouldn't change. So why are they the protagonists again? I mean, Joe and Alice were fascinating characters, but it seemed like they were cut-and-pasted from a totally different story.

What I'm struggling with is this: so what? I mean, Thor had tons of fridge logic, and so did Transformers 2, and in both of those cases, it affected how "good" the film was in a meaningful way. Super 8 has fridge logic, but I don't think that that makes it any worse a film. I think that everything else about the film covers up for this comparitively minor flaw. Yes, plot and story are the most important aspects of film, but maybe not this film. This film was clearly more about tone and characters. And it nailed those. So, I still think that it was a pretty great film, despite the fact that it clearly has flaws.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Super 8 - Spoilers!

Dorkman wrote:

But a "perfect movie" -- as we use the term -- isn't a measure of how enjoyable a film is. It's a measure of whether or not there's a solid payoff for every set-up (aka "keeping every promise it makes")

I thought of a television series that fit this criteria before I thought of a movie.

http://neosoullounge.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/thewire.jpg

It pays off most set-ups to fucking perfection and the rest of them are solid at the least.

Last edited by Ewing (2011-06-12 01:49:44)

Re: Super 8 - Spoilers!

Doctor Submarine wrote:

What I'm struggling with is this: so what? I mean, Thor had tons of fridge logic, and so did Transformers 2, and in both of those cases, it affected how "good" the film was in a meaningful way. Super 8 has fridge logic, but I don't think that that makes it any worse a film. I think that everything else about the film covers up for this comparitively minor flaw. Yes, plot and story are the most important aspects of film, but maybe not this film. This film was clearly more about tone and characters. And it nailed those. So, I still think that it was a pretty great film, despite the fact that it clearly has flaws.

I'm willing to give it good, but not great, because I don't think flaws such as "the protagonists have no good reason to be in the movie" can be waved off as minor. I don't hate it the way I hate the same thing in PAN'S LABYRINTH, but I can't pretend it doesn't matter. But that's subjectivity for you. If you don't care then go on with your bad self.

Ewing wrote:

I thought of a television series that fit this criteria before I thought of a movie.

I tried to watch THE WIRE and got like two episodes in and I was just exhausted already. Could be I wasn't prepared for the HBO "An hour MEANS an hour muthafuckas;" I was also trying to cram it because a producer wanted us to write something and told us that THE WIRE was a good style guide. Now that I've been keeping up with GAME OF THRONES, and I'm not trying to marathon it, maybe I'll be able to enjoy it better.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Super 8 - Spoilers!

Dorkman wrote:

I tried to watch THE WIRE and got like two episodes in and I was just exhausted already. Could be I wasn't prepared for the HBO "An hour MEANS an hour muthafuckas;" I was also trying to cram it because a producer wanted us to write something and told us that THE WIRE was a good style guide. Now that I've been keeping up with GAME OF THRONES, and I'm not trying to marathon it, maybe I'll be able to enjoy it better.

If you decide to give it a chance, I highly recommend giving it at least three or four episodes before you decide if you wanna continue with it or not. The show takes a little while to get fully in motion with all the characters and plots but once it does, you'll be hooked (hopefully). I do realize it's not everyone's cup of tea but I simply cannot praise it enough. Mostly because of the show's narrative but partly due to the fact it was made in my neck of the woods. I just find it cool as hell that I've driven by most of the locations featured in a television series. On top of that, most of the small roles and some of the major ones are played by people who live in the area. My buddy was actually in a college class with a dude from the first season.

Anyway, back to Super 8. I noticed a few easter eggs in the film. For instance, the gas station is called Kelvin's. Abram's last film featured the starship Kelvin. There's a store on the main street called "Locke's" and Abrams created a show featuring a character named Locke. Intentional or not, I always enjoy little winks like that at the audience.

Last edited by Ewing (2011-06-12 03:11:19)

Re: Super 8 - Spoilers!

I loved Super 8 as well, but yeah, it's got some weird problems in the writing that you could have fixed really easily. The only thing that really started to bug me were the jump-scares. Good lord there are a ton of those in there.

The part of the story that matters is the part about the parents and their kids, and the monster story is secondary to that and really sort of supports it. I mean, the kid likes this girl, but their parents hate each other, so they want to keep them apart. The monster steps in at that point and physically takes her away. The two fathers have their talk in the car and confront their guilt and anger right before the kid's scene where he stops running and confronts the monster.

The monster is building this machine that will apparently collect all the little cube things, but he's also wasting time killing people. In the scenes where the monster attacks people it's initially just collecting parts for it's machine, but then it's distracted by some human and takes them or kills them. I guess the scene with the kid was supposed to make it realize that it should stop wasting time and take off. The two fathers spend the movie ultimately defeating their own goals, which is to have a positive relationship with their kids, because they're too preoccupied with being pissed off at each other and feeling sorry for themselves. They take their selfish emotions out on their kids in the same way the monster takes it's own selfish emotions out on the humans in town. Overcoming selfishness is something of a theme in the film, as the fat kid has to deal with it as well.

I wanted to facepalm when the locket thing happened, but later I met some people who actually didn't get the whole "letting go of the locket" thing, so I guess the movie is riding that fine line between being your typical summer blockbuster and being subtle, though subtle isn't the right word.

I also thought the 8mm film was going to play much more into the movie's plot.

Overall, tho, it's probably the most fun and upbeat movie I've seen in a theater in a while. Too many action flicks are just so damn dark and depressing. Also, those two main kids can fuckin act. Pyro kid was funny. I liked how scenes with a bunch of people would often have multiple conversations going on at once. I'll probably see it again in the theater. Unfortunately, as I was being shoved through the exit door of the theater by the dicks behind me the kids' film started playing, so I didn't get to see more than a couple seconds of it. Wish I had just kept my ass in my seat.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Super 8 - Spoilers!

I just saw this yesterday (it was just released here last week) and I loved it, Elle Fanning was fantastic.  I do have one question though....

Were we supposed to actually feel sorry for the alien at the end? You know, the alien that killed and ate people? The alien that they let escape to get to it's own planet so it can bring all its mates down the buffet planet.......

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Super 8 - Spoilers!

Of course you're supposed to feel sorry for the alien. Didn't you see E.T.? J.J. Abrams saw E.T. and he wants you to be thinking about how you felt watching E.T. Never mind what the alien actually spent its time doing in this movie. You're not supposed to be thinking about this movie.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Super 8 - Spoilers!

Then I call bullshit. I enjoyed the movie a lot but the ending was really fucking stupid. The locket part didn't bother me though, as someone who lost two members of his family in the space of two weeks recently (though, thankfully not my mum), I sort of teared up a bit. The alien getting away was shite though.

Make up your bloody mind who we're rooting for Abrams!

EDIT: Actually, now that I have thought about it, it was a bit of a waste making Alice the abducted one. It should have been the dads that were taken, or at least one of them and the other is forced to help. Seemed a bit odd taking the best character (and best acted in my opnion) away, reducing to her a damsel in distress.....

Last edited by Jimmy B (2011-08-12 17:10:03)

Thumbs up Thumbs down