Re: Looper

I have to imagine that the hard part of being Rian Johnson or Christopher Nolan or whomever is that lots of people tell you they loved the movie AND THEY DID. And other people say that your movie has very fundamental things wrong with it and it "doesn't work" or doesn't work as well as it should.

But if he made the movie KNOWING that people who care about writing are going to say it has structural problems, and he didn't care, then it's his problem. There's no such thing as an hour-long discussion about a movie that makes you understand that it's not clunky.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: Looper

Well, he's been going on podcasts for months now with people telling him that the movie is structurally brilliant and perfectly written. I don't care how humble you are, that's gonna lift your ego a little bit. Rian Johnson is not an egotist by any stretch, but when people poke at your baby, you're within your rights to get annoyed.

By the way, I feel for Teague on this commentary. It hurt me that you guys are right.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: Looper

Lamer wrote:
C-Spin wrote:

Towards the ends he basically gives him a thank you shout-out and says, half-jokingly, "He looked over the script and said, it's good, but your time travel is total bullshit, and then I didn't do anything about it."

That's the problem right there. He's saying 'all my choices are correct and I don't care if you disagree'. I got the same vibe from reading the twitter discussion.

Yeah, nobody wants to hear the movie they spent ages writing then making isn't perfect. Nobody wants to hear their baby is ugly especially if many others tell them it's the cutest baby they've ever seen.

Or something. Yeah.

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Re: Looper

Kevin Smith just released an episode of Smodcast, in which he talks to Rian Johnson about his films, including Looper:

http://smodcast.com/episodes/skip-to-my-looper/

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Re: Looper

Aww, but that means I have to listen to Kevin Smith big_smile

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56

Re: Looper

Re: Kid Blue being Abe. Rian Johnson said in his 'in theatre' commentary that it was his favourite fan theory but didn't indicate that it was something he'd intended. There is also a deleted scene in the special features where one of the Gat men attempts to execute Kid Blue after Kid Blue hands in his gun. I took that as evidence that Abe and Kid Blue weren't originally supposed to be the same person as ordering your own execution is rather unwitty.

Also the switch from France to China was because a Chinese production company put in funding for the movie in exchange for having scenes in China. Originally Joe was actually supposed to go to Paris. It also resulted in the best line in the movie.

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Re: Looper

Not only that but the involvement of the Chinese production company had additional benefits.

China only allows few western movies into the country every year. Because Looper was partly funded by Chinese money the movie was not subjected to this quota and therefore got access to a HUGE market it otherwise would not be able to access.

Last edited by AshDigital (2013-01-30 15:50:28)

---------------------------------------------
I would never lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation.

Re: Looper

All you need to do is ditch the TK, fix the time travel and you have a solid film. You only need a couple of minor tweaks to pull that off.

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Re: Looper

well, more than that. Show the rainmaker being a threat in the future, have a proper payoff for Jeff Daniels' character, etc.

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Re: Looper

THE SCENE. All horror movies put together have not effected me like that single scene did the first time I watched it. Thank you for sharing that nightmare fuel with me. However, when I started to think about it, questions started to arise, and the scene began to break for me.

SPOILERS:

The question that kept coming up for me is that if they were willing to horribly disfigure Paul Dano's character (Seth) in order to get his old self to come back, why not just kill the the young Seth? They wouldn't have to worry about a body, because the old Seth would just disappear like Bruce Willis did. I understand if they did this you wouldn't be able to have that scene, but its still broken for me now when it was intially jaw dropping.

"Back to the Future is great, and if you disagree then you're Hitler." -Dorkman
"You sucking is canon!" -Brian

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Re: Looper

Hahahahahaha.

You just gave me an idea wherein the people from 2044 just start reverse-looping and throwing all their shit into the future, and the people in the future are all panicky about the bodies that keep appearing everywhere, hijinks ensue. Directed by Harold Ramis.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Looper

I thought about Looper's time travel and I think I have a solution to the disfigurement/vanishing problem. Introduce a form of 'quantum entanglement' between future and present loopers. Here's how it works:

Old Seth jumps back in time. He now occupies the same 'moment' as Young Seth. Since they are basically the same person, they're almost identical on a atomic level (not 100% because one is older but this isn't Time Cop so it doesn't matter). We can nitpick and say that the body recreates different cells at different speeds etc but the bottom line is: there's enough young seth in the future version to make this work.

Now. Old Seth runs away, Young Seth gets captured. They put him on a table and blow his hand off with a shotgun or something. This doesn't cause the Future Seth to suddenly lose a hand but the atoms in his hand respond to what happens to their 'younger' counterparts. His arm starts breaking down on a molecular level mimicking what would happen to you if you tried to play baseball with a piece of a fuel rod from a nuclear reactor. This only works through space and not time so nothing is going to suddenly vanish from existence and create all sorts of continuity problems. That way you can still have a scene where Old Seth is racing through the city while falling apart and still make sense.

As for the ending:

Young Joe blows his head off = Old Joe's brain melts and he collapses instantly.

This setup also makes Joe's decision to kill himself more reasonable since Old Joe could've still managed to pull the trigger before his hand fell apart. A headshot would be the only way to go.

The only drawback of this magic bean is that you'd have to specify that the link only works one way. Otherwise the whole Looping business wouldn't work at all. (Well, that's not exactly true, you can still make it work but I haven't figured out a way around that problem without altering the structure of the movie).

I hope this makes sense tongue

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Re: Looper

Okay, so when I initially posted the link to the Smodcast episode of Kevin Smith talking to Rian Johnson about Looper, I had yet to finish listening to the whole thing. What I discovered after the fact, was they didn't really talk about Looper (but it's still a really good listen I'm recommending). Turns out, it was Part One of a Two-Part discussion. Now, in the Smoviemakers listing, here is the second half, which I promise IS about Looper:

http://smodcast.com/episodes/smoviemake … n-johnson/

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Re: Looper

Lamer wrote:

I thought about Looper's time travel and I think I have a solution to the disfigurement/vanishing problem. Introduce a form of 'quantum entanglement' between future and present loopers. Here's how it works:

I hope this makes sense tongue

I understand what you're saying, I still don't understand why they wouldn't just kill young Seth if they're willing to dismember him. In your example, would they just be worried about the body then? I can't imagine having the body around would cause that much of a problem. What could the police determine, "Man, it's an old dead guy with a liquidfied brain, that's fucked up." They couldn't determine how he died from that.

"Back to the Future is great, and if you disagree then you're Hitler." -Dorkman
"You sucking is canon!" -Brian

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Re: Looper

FireFighter214 wrote:

I understand what you're saying, I still don't understand why they wouldn't just kill young Seth if they're willing to dismember him.

Weren't they just dimembering young Seth to fuck with old Seth? They were just prolonging his agony to freak him out because they're sadistic buggers. That's what I got from it anyway.

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Re: Looper

FireFighter214 wrote:
Lamer wrote:

I thought about Looper's time travel and I think I have a solution to the disfigurement/vanishing problem. Introduce a form of 'quantum entanglement' between future and present loopers. Here's how it works:

I hope this makes sense tongue

I understand what you're saying, I still don't understand why they wouldn't just kill young Seth if they're willing to dismember him. In your example, would they just be worried about the body then?

To make Old Seth come back on his own. No cleanup, no questions asked. It's not so much about worrying, it's efficiency.

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Re: Looper

Lamer wrote:
FireFighter214 wrote:
Lamer wrote:

I thought about Looper's time travel and I think I have a solution to the disfigurement/vanishing problem. Introduce a form of 'quantum entanglement' between future and present loopers. Here's how it works:

I hope this makes sense tongue

I understand what you're saying, I still don't understand why they wouldn't just kill young Seth if they're willing to dismember him. In your example, would they just be worried about the body then?

To make Old Seth come back on his own. No cleanup, no questions asked. It's not so much about worrying, it's efficiency.

But isn't it much quicker, and more efficient to just shoot young Seth on the spot rather than kidnap him, recruit a surgeon, set up a make-shift surgery unit, scar the message in his arm, than start hacking off random parts of his body. I'm sorry to keep harping on this, but it's completely ruined this really awesome scene for me.

Last edited by FireFighter214 (2013-02-01 19:27:37)

"Back to the Future is great, and if you disagree then you're Hitler." -Dorkman
"You sucking is canon!" -Brian

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Re: Looper

Why did they not just kill young Seth?
Did Abe not make it clear that he (they) won’t kill Seth because that would be too dangerous to the future?

RJ has said that time travel was not fully understood by the mobsters (they are criminals, not scientists) so that much of what they do is to not mess more with the timeline than absolutely necessary. That is why they close the loops by having the Loopers kill them selfs and thereby not affecting more people than themselves and the "marks" they are contracted to kill.

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I would never lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation.

Re: Looper

Well in my version there is no message. We just have to assume that Old Seth knows where Looper HQ does this kind of stuff and goes back to stop them before they kill his younger self. You can't just put a bullet in his head because you don't know where the old guy is. So let's say the cops find him, run his prints/DNA whatever and see that the 50 year old guy is apparently in his 20's. Making him come back on his own is the best way to handle this scenario.

Last edited by Lamer (2013-02-01 19:38:06)

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Re: Looper

AshDigital wrote:

Why did they not just kill young Seth?
Did Abe not make it clear that he (they) won’t kill Seth because that would be too dangerous to the future?

RJ has said that time travel was not fully understood by the mobsters (they are criminals, not scientists) so that much of what they do is to not mess more with the timeline than absolutely necessary. That is why they close the loops by having the Loopers kill them selfs and thereby not affecting more people than themselves and the "marks" they are contracted to kill.

Alright, I have reached the level of "Shut up and enjoy the movie" haven't I? I can except the explanation of, their mobsters, not scientists. But I would think making a person a quadriplegic would endanger a person's fate almost just as much as killing him would.

"Back to the Future is great, and if you disagree then you're Hitler." -Dorkman
"You sucking is canon!" -Brian

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Re: Looper

As long as the movie answers your question with "that would be bad for the future", there's no more point in asking it. They're the experts.  hmm  But you're right that there's a whole lot logically wrong with that scene, despite its being awesomely horrifying.

The real question is why Kid Blue doesn't kill Old Joe; that's the whole point of sending him back in time in the first place, and they don't need any information from him. Instead, he takes him back to HQ, where Old Joe is able to kill everyone and solve all his and Young Joe's problems—I mean not accomplish anything.

I just thought of another thing, tho. Think of the story from Abe's point of view. He gets high up in the Mob, where he is awarded the trusted position of... leaving behind the awesome future and living in a shit hole in the past, supervising punk hit men?

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

72

Re: Looper

I assumed that Seth's memories of his previously awesome 30 year retirement were being changed as he was dismembered, which was freaking him out as much as loosing body parts. If he did manage to get there quickly he figured he had a chance at a decent life? The theory only holds a bit of water. Presumably young Seth did not get a very nice retirement.

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Re: Looper

I've expressed issues in these forums in the past, as to Confused Matthew's qualifications as a "good" film critic. Lately, he's downright pissed me off with his arrogance, condescension and didactic attitude (he's even gone so far as to actually say that any professional opinion that likes Man of Steel is plain wrong and he's even lashed out at specific people like Grae Drake for having opinions different from his own).

Having said that, I think he did a fairly intelligent and civilized job in offering a unique point of view on the second magic bean and why it kind of ruins the movie: http://blip.tv/confused-matthew/request … er-6720748

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Re: Looper

Just for my own sick gratification, would you say we also did that?  cool

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Looper

Oh, definitely! I'm just saying that while both Matthew and WAYDM reach the same basic conclusion, he goes about getting there in a different, albeit more succinct way (his video is 11 minutes long, whereas you guys take advantage of the film's running time, of course). He also suggests the film has too many disparate ideas and threads for any one of them to provide total fulfillment or depth, which I don't think you guys talked about, though I could be wrong.

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