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Topic: TED talk: Colin Stokes: How movies teach manhood

During his talk he speaks on the Bechdel test, and gives perspective on showing movies to his daughter and son, especially the Wizard of Oz, and Star Wars.

He gives a criticism of Star Wars that I haven't really thought about before. While Leia is fairly positive female character, she really only serves to send the men off to fight, and then reward them when they return.

The other thing that this talk made me think about is how valuable is the Bechdel test really? A movie could have a strong positive female character, but doesn't interact with any other female characters because it doesn't serve the story, Alien 3 for an example. Now, Sucker Punch, Prometheus, and Thor do pass the test, but they are movies that fail completely in other areas, and could even be misogynistic in places. So what good is this test? It is a little interesting, but in the end I think it really doesn't tell you anything.

I do think the point of his talk still has some validity, but I think its more about what should we be showing our kids, at what age, instead of what is being made in Hollywood, overall.

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  • Phi
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Re: TED talk: Colin Stokes: How movies teach manhood

I think the general idea of the Bechdel test is not to directly test individual movies, but to point out that a ridiculously low percentage of movies manage to pass this ridiculously low bar. That's the part worth thinking about. I fully agree that passing the Bechdel test does not prove or even give much evidence that a specific movie has well written female characters.

As to his broader point, I don't think Hollywood movies turn boys into rapists any more than video games turn people into murderers. More variety in movies would be good though (get on that capitalism, hah), and I'll probably be thinking about what lessons my kids are pulling from the cultural stories they absorb.

Last edited by Phi (2013-10-18 20:36:22)

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  • From: Red Deer, AB
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Re: TED talk: Colin Stokes: How movies teach manhood

Phi wrote:

I think the general idea of the Bechdel test is not to directly test individual movies, but to point out that a ridiculously low percentage of movies manage to pass this ridiculously low bar. That's the part worth thinking about. I fully agree that passing the Bechdel test does not prove or even give much evidence that a specific movie has well written female characters.

This is interesting, because I've only ever heard the Bechdel test used in the context of "This movie doesn't even pass the bechdel test, it's worthless" Or something to that effect. I always see it used as a damning of a specific movie because it doesn't pass the test, and that every movie NEEDS to pass it in order to even be considered a good movie.

Maybe I just know a lot of Bechdel extremists or something. hmm

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  • Trey
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Re: TED talk: Colin Stokes: How movies teach manhood

The Bechdel test is like taking a patient's temperature - an easy check to see if there might be a problem.  And just like a slightly high temperature, "failing" the Bechdel test doesn't automatically mean there IS a problem.

For example Gravity "fails" the Bechdel test, but for valid story reasons.  There's only one woman in the movie, which can suggest sexism - so many movies are about boys doing stuff with one girl thrown in as a love interest.  But in this case there are only two people IN the movie.  So I think Gravity gets a pass, despite "failing" the test.   Pretty sure Shawshank Redemption "fails" as well, but again that's not due to sexism.

The purpose of the Bechdel test is to raise awareness of how shockingly few movies there are with more than one major female character.   And how few of those movies develop the female characters as individuals with thoughts and goals beyond getting with the hero.

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  • Rob
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Re: TED talk: Colin Stokes: How movies teach manhood

Ditto for the Plinkett test and other similar tests. Characters failing the Plinkett test, by itself, is not necessarily a flaw. But it's often consistent with certain kinds of flaws. Often enough that it becomes a handy little indicator. (IOW, what Trey said. The thermometer analogy also fits well because doctors typically don't only take the temperature—it's just one of several checks they might run en route to a diagnosis.)

I'm guessing he chose Star Wars more because it's well-known and not so much because it's the best illustration of his argument. The depiction of Leia really ain't that bad, so far as these things go. Especially when you cut some extra slack for the fact that they were specifically going for an old-school hero's journey/save-the-princess storyline.

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