Re: Is there a God and why?
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Is there a God and why? (Page 8 of 15)
Friends In Your Head | Forums → Off Topic → Is there a God and why?
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179 2014-01-02 17:42:58 (edited by Dorkman 2014-01-02 17:56:18)
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Re: Is there a God and why?
+1 
180 2014-01-02 18:17:54 (edited by fireproof78 2014-01-02 18:18:10)
Re: Is there a God and why?
To put it simply, yes I am comfortable with that. I have a sense of the the mechanics that would need to come together, spontaneously, in order to form DNA. That, in of itself, is interesting how it all comes together.
So, if I follow your line of thought correctly (which, I am trying to do) we are wrong about everything?
I'm not trying to assign intent to the entire natural world, with demons or gods behind EVERY event. I am, however, trying to understand all the factors that make this Earth function and how the elements that do so arise by chance. I do wonder at that.
Yes, science is against me but not every scientist. There is a book that I wish to pick up and read that documents both the known natural history of life on Earth and the 6 day creation story in the Bible. The author is not interested in proving (I use that term deliberately) that creation occurred in 6 days but that the events follow a pattern. It sounds interesting and again, points towards first cause.
Actually, the idea that Plato proposed works in this discussion too. The idea that the matter of the universe is not perfect matter, and that God did not create. It also flows with one interpretation of the Hebrew of the creation account, that the Earth BECAME without form, indicating that it existed before. It is an interesting thought, of a universe without a form we would know, or could know, because it would be unlike anything that could conceive. It is beyond our perspective because we have such a limited point of view.
So, like Eddie, we can't really know, can we?
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Re: Is there a God and why?
It's true that science doesn't know everything. It may even be true that science WILL NEVER know everything.
No one claims these things.
But that doesn't mean any other means at attaining knowledge (revelation, intuition, authority, tradition) is therefore superior.
The scientific method is not just the best way at attaining knowledge, but it's the only way. It's got a self-correcting mechanism built in and admits its ignorance and has achieved more in the last 400 years than any other superstition has in 6000 years.
We're just going to have to get used to admitting we don't know how the universe began. We've got to be comfortable with uncertainty, rather than placing some Creator there.
And even if you had to insert a 'first cause' there (Deism), how do you get from there to a personal God that answers prayers, cares about your personal failures, resurrects homo sapiens, punishes and rewards, etc?
not long to go now...
183 2014-01-02 18:29:44 (edited by Dorkman 2014-01-02 18:32:28)
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Re: Is there a God and why?
Like I said, I haven't read the book, but it is a curious thought experiment none the less.
As much as natural laws have demonstrated to us, there are still unknown elements and I get the impulse to explain them as well as the lack of understanding. There are elements to life as we know it that don't make sense in the way they come together. Heck, even water doesn't make sense to science. So, even as I pursue scientific inquiries, there are still religious ideas that I consider too.
I think that we would not know there is a creative force unless it chose to reveal itself to us.
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Re: Is there a God and why?
"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague
+2
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Re: Is there a God and why?
One thing that's apparent after years of these conversations is that the human brain can rationalize just about any position. Human language is vague enough that one can get any conclusion from any premise ,if you've already decided a priori that's where you want to arrive at. And a few seconds Googling can provide anyone with extra arguments to back up just about any point.
Maybe it's like different people's metabolism. Some people just put on weight easier than others, given the same calories. Likewise, given the same arguments, and evidence, some people just gravitate towards a religious conclusion whilst others arrive at an atheist conclusion.
Reminds me of a secular proverb (which I don't think is quite accurate): You can't reason a person out of a position that they didn't use reason to enter into.
not long to go now...
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Re: Is there a God and why?
Okay, water behaves weirdly. What argument are you resting on this fact? That science doesn't know everything? That's fine. We've all conceded that.
Our knowledge is limited and fallible and some parts of it will most likely be corrected in the future.
But that doesn't mean that ANY OTHER way of knowing is better. What are the alternatives?
1. I have a hunch?
2. God told me in a dream ?
3. That's what we've always been taught?
4. The Pope/Ayatollah/Rabbi/Holy Man told me?
not long to go now...
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Re: Is there a God and why?
"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague
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Re: Is there a God and why?
"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague
200 2014-01-02 20:10:28 (edited by Doctor Submarine 2014-01-02 20:10:36)
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Re: Is there a God and why?
"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague
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