Brian, you started this game of "it's wrong because that's not how we would do things" so I submit that we already build and launch space vehicles as far away from population centers as we can get them, for a variety of good reasons.

There were plenty of things in Star Trek that I didn't buy, but a starship being assembled in the boonies actually DID make sense to me for a change.    Building it in the Middle of Nowhere, Iowa seems like a far better idea than San Francisco.   

True, IN FRICKIN SPACE would have made even more sense, but whatever.

BTW, I do have to admit that I learned something new from this episode of DIF...   I knew Kirk had a brother Sam who died on an outpost planet, because there's a whole original series episode about that.  But I sure never knew that was supposed to be Sam's car that Kid Kirk dropped off that cliff.   

I thought the car - and the voice on the phone  - belonged to Kirk's mom's new husband or boyfriend.    Which I liked, because that REALLY made Kirk a bad kid.     Stealing his brother's car doesn't seem like nearly as big a deal.   

So how are we supposed to know that's his brother?  Does he call him Sam?  Are we sure it's Brother Sam?  And how does Kirk's brother afford an antique car like that, did he invent Slusho or what?

Well, that does make more sense.  I must have misheard that bit.

I still like the idea that he stole mom's boyfriend's car, tho...

I have much catching up to do, 'cause I'm an east coast person and thus made the sleepytime earlier than you guys.

Almost, actually. But not quite. I don't think the cadets in the bar are just about to leave for school. I think they've already been in school for a year. Kirk makes that boast about "four years? I'll do it in three," and then we get a big title that says "Three years later," but he's in the same class as Uhura and Cupcake whom he meets in the bar. That means they start out a year ahead of him. Plus they're already in uniform, and they're already responding to Pike's authority like plebes, not like raw recruits. Oh, and Uhura has already declared her major. Yeah, they're already plebes, going on middies.

It's fine that they were in a bar. My complaint is that they were in a bar a thousand miles off campus for no apparent reason. In another post weeks ago I postulated the whole field-trip-to-the-shipyard idea, with Pike as their chaperone, but … meh.

Now, I'm not saying this is a movie-killing plot hole for me. It's just an example of how the plot is shaped entirely around putting characters in certain situations with little lip-service given to internal logic. If I were given the script as shot, then asked to write a novelization or something that told the story of what happened off-screen during and surrounding the events of the film, I'd struggle.

Remember that one continuity error at the start of Star Trek VI, where that one actor appears in two different shots, seeming to be in two places at once? The fans wanked that one to the point of soreness and chafing. I think I read that they came up with the idea that that character was actually a pair of identical twins assigned to bridge duty on the same ship, on the same watch. I'm sure the fans would have no problem wanking an explanation for why these plebes were in Iowa that night … if they cared enough to try.

The rank system, the uniforms, the basic protocol we see on screen, Pike's very brief description of what Starfleet is and how it works in the bar. Basically everything we see and hear on screen implies that Starfleet has some more-or-less familiar bureaucracy and hierarchy. There's very little on screen to imply that it doesn't … except when things happen that make no sense at all in the context of other similar organizations. I would have had absolutely no problem with the premise that Starfleet is just-plain-different … but that's not established in the film.

Oooh, that would have been incredibly cool. I get why McCoy broke the rules to get Kirk aboard, from a purely utilitarian story point of view. But it didn't mean anything, really, because there's no indication that McCoy ever felt like he was putting anything on the line. I like your suggestion, and I wish Pike had been the one to get Kirk aboard. I'm captain, and we're not leaving without this kid aboard. And then Pike just keeps promoting him. Kirk, you're now an observer, stand here and don't touch anything. Oh shit, it's a trap, Kirk I'm giving you a battlefield commission to first lieutenant so you can be in the chain of command. Oh shit, I've gotta go over there, Kirk, I'm giving you a brevet promotion to XO. Meanwhile Spock is seething 'cause he wanted the kid drummed out of Starfleet but his immediate boss keeps undermining him. That would have been a really cool dynamic.

No reason whatsoever. The butterfly effect is the excuse, but the reason is proximity to Jim Kirk. Which kinda makes young Jim Kirk the most important person in this entire universe, I guess. Shades of Zaphod in the Total Perspective Vortex.

See, I actually dug the fact that the Enterprise wasn't assembled in space. I read some article or something after the trailer came out but before the film debuted where Orci and Kurtzman were like, "It's not a fragile ship. It's a hell of a lot easier and cheaper to build it on the ground." That makes sense to me; I buy that. Hell, the only reason we're assembling the space station in orbit is 'cause we don't have any lifters big enough to get the whole thing up in one go. So we take it up in prefab'd pieces that are just small enough to fit in the lifters we do have and no smaller, then bolt 'em together on orbit.

Techincally...no. We never truly find out what graduating class anyone is in, because well, no one graduates, they all get shipped off to the Enterprise before that can happen. So for all we know Mccoy could be graduating a year after Kirk, or hell, Kirk could not even be graduating this year. I don't "think" they ever explicitly state that Kirk "actually" did it in 3 years, thats just what he says to Pike.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I remember it.

As far as the field trip out, I guess I just don't know enough about military protocol or how this shit works. (Ala Cadets vs plebes vs etc etc.)

But they Pike does say that the shuttle for "New Recruits leaves tomorrow." Which is the one he takes which does have all the other cadets on board.

Hmm. Yeah, that's true, nobody ever says "Hey Jim, you're graduating soon, isn't that awesome?" But he takes the Kobayashi Maru, which I inferred was a sort of final exam for Firsties. So that was me reading between the lines.

Similarly, now that I think of it the only reason I assumed Kirk and McCoy are in the same class is because they were mustered in ranks together in the hangar, and I just jumped the the conclusion that of course they were in the same class, 'cause otherwise they'd never have been in the same formation together. Not a totally rock-solid conclusion.

I guess we could debate whether the writers' intent was that Uhura, McCoy and Kirk should all have been in the same class (midshipman second, midshipman first, whatever) despite Uhura's apparent head start. But knowing Orci and Kurtzman, we might well get the answer that their Starfleet Academy is more of a Montessori school than a traditional military academy blah blah space hippie utopia whatever man.

That's definitely not how the Naval Academy works, but the Naval Academy has no room for notions like "I'll do it in three" either. So sure, why not. Maybe McCoy clep'd out of his first year or something.

Or maybe Kirk's "I'll do it in three" was total nonsense, and he was in fact a middie second just like he should've been, only he ended up being … sigh. Graduated early.

I'm becoming a fan of the Montessori explanation.

You're ascribing motive and intent where there's no evidence of same. I'm as yet unwilling to stipulate that Orci and Kurtzman's Starfleet was based on or inspired by anything.

Well let's not forget that Star Trek 6 blew up the Klingon homeworld for shits and giggles.

*slowly raises hand*

I seem to recall a certain 17 year old in TNG get promoted from the rank of ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to ACTING ENSIGN, and have a semi permanent bridge position solely on the fact that his Dad was dead. 

In my opinion, there's a precedent for Starfleet hasty promotions, so this did not bother me at all.

Except it was the moon Praxis that was destroyed and it was only the ozone layer of their homeworld itself which was damaged. The planet wasn't Alderaaned.

Wesley Crusher was an acting ensign in a clearly trainee position on the ship, hardly the same as being given heavy responsibilities in a difficult situation when you've shown yourself to be somewhat irresponsible.

It's not the why though, it's the how. Had we seen why Pike saw potential in Kirk - other than audience foreknowledge or 'your dad was good so you must be too' - or seen perhaps how Pike liked and agreed with Kirk's way of doing things, the transition would have been grounded.

As it stands, too many characters put themselves in positions where they should suffer consequence but they are rewarded instead. The main explanation for which is that they need to be on that Enterprise bridge at the end when the credits roll.  The transition feels contrived.

I don't know much about Trek, but I'm fairly certain that invoking Wesley Crusher is not the way to resolve an argument.