1 (edited by fireproof78 2013-02-16 20:25:17)

Topic: The SCIFI Thread! :) (not about the TV channel)

I've been kicking around this idea since listening to the Dredd commentary as to what makes good science  fiction and what is poor science fiction. Teague discussed a good starting point for creating new science fiction is to theorize a world and then make an argument against it.
Science fiction is an interesting piece of work, because it can take many different forms. So, to start this thread out, feel free to define what you consider to be good or bad science fiction and any examples you would like to share.

I'll start with my own. I think that good science fiction fuels your imagination to consider possibilities beyond our own world. It can also comment on the human condition through these new worlds, but I don't feel that it has to have that to be successful. I consider some of the best science fiction to be works that challenge the reader to imagine the world, rather than providing all the details.

Examples of my own personal favorites (its a long list)

"Legends of the Star Wolf" by veteran Star Trek writer David Gerold
"Space Cadet" "Starship Troopers" "Tunnel in the Sky" by Robert Heinlein
"Dune" by Frank Herbert
"Mars" by Ben Bova

Feel freed to add on. Movies are obviously welcome too, but that's an even longer list smile

Edit: Clarified the title smile

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2 (edited by Abbie 2013-02-16 09:32:32)

Re: The SCIFI Thread! :) (not about the TV channel)

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Re: The SCIFI Thread! :) (not about the TV channel)

It's come out at last! Thanks for the heads up fireproof (and bullet3).

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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Re: The SCIFI Thread! :) (not about the TV channel)

I'm bumping my own thread to ask a question of the scifi nerds out there:
In the Phantom Menace Commentary our brave panelists discuss politics in space and how it doesn't work for Star Wars, much to the fans horror.

However, the Dune novels explore politics in great detail of a galactic empire, including many different organizations, houses and armies. Even in the movie adaptations, the politics of the situation are never denied but explored as each side vies for position.

This may be an oversimplification, but can political scifi, like Dune, work, even in screen adaptation?

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Re: The SCIFI Thread! :) (not about the TV channel)

Take any normal movie about politics that works, put them in funny outfits. If it still works, the answer is "yes" smile I think most of the problem is related to the one Teague had with Dark City (except this time justified): with a SF tale, you first have to understand the background before the politics become interesting. Unless the tale can be broken down to its most basic components (they must do THIS to stop war!), politics often IS local and doesn't translate well. This is true with foreign films, and is going to be even more true in a fictional universe. In both cases most viewers will just follow the character arcs and ignore the actual political details.

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Re: The SCIFI Thread! :) (not about the TV channel)

A TV series lets you ease people into it. Plus, Babylon 5 started with a mystery, and worked in the politics later. It was the UN in space, which then branched out to deal with the various alien governments.

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Re: The SCIFI Thread! :) (not about the TV channel)

And Sg-1 didn't really start to become really political until at least season 4 or 5.

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Re: The SCIFI Thread! :) (not about the TV channel)

It doesn't work in the Star Wars prequels because only lip service is paid to the politics. It merely states a political intention, but neglects to develop either the background to the argument, or the argument itself. And without a social or financial argument at its heart, and at least two sides to that argument that you can understand (and actually make sense), it's just a half-baked idea. And I find that a poorly communicated/told political story is one that breaks down more noticeably than others. I had similar misgivings about the politics in 300 (see that thread).

If you pick up a random Star Trek episode, you'll find it did this much better, where often within its 45-minute running time it will present a commentary about a political topic. And it does it well because it lends credibility to both sides of the discourse.

In TPM, the taxation of trade routes alone isn't interesting, but it's also nowhere detailed enough to make it interesting. That the motivation of the villains remains vague and seemingly at odds with their desires also hinders its effectiveness as a driving plot force. Why would a Trade Federation block trade? It's just thrown in there but never developed beyond being mentioned a couple of times. Worse, the whole manner of its dealing in the senate is laugable, and stretches plausibility to the extreme because we can't see how this political organisation can ever function. Remember, the senate cannot even agree that Naboo is blockaded, and yet it allows a vote of no confidence regarding the 'non-existent' crisis. What? Did someone even read that twice when they wrote it?

When you create a make-believe world with its own political institutions, demonstrating that they make sense and work is vital. And that requires a fair amount of thought and research in the writing process.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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Re: The SCIFI Thread! :) (not about the TV channel)

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Re: The SCIFI Thread! :) (not about the TV channel)

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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Re: The SCIFI Thread! :) (not about the TV channel)

Huh.  I've seen FTL on Steam, but I confess I never bothered to look into it.  I'm still not sure it's my cup of tea, but that Let's Play and the $9.99 price tag has me tempted.  Thanks for sharing Redx.

Re: The SCIFI Thread! :) (not about the TV channel)

I have the game. It's OK, but to be honest I've never tried to win: I stop as soon as I'm at the final sector. What I DO find amusing are its fans in various forums. Whenever anyone has ANY comments on things they don't like, or features they'd like to see, the response is: "It's a Rogue-like game! What do you expect!" As if genres are absolute smile

(I had never heard of Rogue until FTL, but assume it's an early example of the style)

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22 (edited by Snail 2013-06-10 20:37:28)

Re: The SCIFI Thread! :) (not about the TV channel)

"Life is about movies; anything else is a bonus!"- Me   cool

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Snail!
You took all the fun out my analogy with your super detailed diagram  tongue

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Re: The SCIFI Thread! :) (not about the TV channel)

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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Re: The SCIFI Thread! :) (not about the TV channel)

God loves you!

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