Topic: Will Somebody Please Explain This Shit?

One of my favorite films as a teenager was Sin City. I still enjoy it to this day but as a teenager it had everything I could ever want in a movie - gratuitous sex and violence, sly dialogue, badass characters, intertwining plots, and a unique look unlike anything I had ever seen before. I had no idea the film was almost entirely CGI aside from the actors until I saw behind-the-scenes footage a few months after viewing the movie. Obviously, I'm a more "skilled" viewer now than I was at 16, but to this day, I'm still awestruck by the way everything meshes together in Sin City to create a seamlessly blended world. There are very few, if any, shots with jarring elements that seem fake or out of place with everything else. If you haven't seen the movie, or need a reminder, here are a couple of scenes that demonstrate what I'm talking about:

I've eagerly been anticipating a sequel to the film as soon as I learned about, and eventually read, the multiple unadapted stories from the comics. Finally, after nearly ten years since the original was released, the sequel will hit theaters in two weeks. All the elements that made me love original look to be intact - gratuitous sex and violence, sly dialogue, badass characters, intertwining plots and a unique look. The only problem about the unique look is that the blended world of the original has been replaced by a cheap and fake looking world with multiple jarring elements. Here is a clip:

The backgrounds still look fairly good but the muzzle flashes and blood splatters look like shitty and cheap effects plug-ins. Perhaps most jarring of all are the prosthetics on Mickey Rourke. Instead of an exaggerated but believable jaw line, chin, and forehead, his face now looks like it was stung by a swarm of bees. I would think that nearly a decade later the effects would look slightly better than the original, not drastically worse. The extreme contrast in quality has left me with a ton of questions:

Why does everything look worse?
Is it the budget? I can't find budget info but I doubt it's significantly less than the original ($40 million).
Do high quality visual effects cost significantly more now than they did a decade ago?
Did the quality of digital cameras drop off a cliff? The original was all shot on digital and looks fine.
Did Robert Rodriguez go senile? A lot of his recent efforts have suffered from shoddy visual effects.
Did Rourke get more plastic surgery and fuck up the makeup as a result?
Did blood splatters and muzzle flashes become harder to create?
Are the effects actually worse or am I just looking at the original with rose-tinted glasses?
Is it just me? Does everything look fine to everyone else?

I'm hoping someone here can clear up my confusion because I'm at a complete loss for answers.

Re: Will Somebody Please Explain This Shit?

Speaking for the splatter: the other possibility is that for promotional material which is going to be widely accessible, they may have replaced the gorier elements with more PG-13ish effects, while the movie itself will have effects more like the original.

Disclaimer: if you dislike the tone of a post I make, re-read it in a North/East London accent until it sounds sufficiently playful smile

Re: Will Somebody Please Explain This Shit?

First and foremost, I would guess that the sequel does have a significantly smaller budget. It's been nearly ten years since the original, which indicates that the studio wasn't exactly chomping at the bit to go back to that well, nor does Rodriguez exactly blow the doors off the box office when he puts out a film. I can't find any info on the budget but Google does show me press releases that the VFX for the sequel are being handled by Prime Focus -- who on the fast-cheap-good triangle have the reputation (and track record) of being squarely the fast-cheap choice.

Rodriguez's recent efforts are plagued by the fact that he was never a particularly good filmmaker to begin with -- the method and attitude with which he approached filmmaking were far more interesting than the final results -- compounded by the fact that since GRINDHOUSE he's discovered that there is an audience that enjoys deliberately cheesy shit like MACHETE, and he's riding a sweet spot of spending just enough to be a cut above ASYLUM films, but not so much his films are actually financially risky.

The first SIN CITY was made by a guy who was still growing as a filmmaker and trying to elevate the material artistically and bring it to life. This one is being made by a guy whose whole schtick has settled into deliberately targeting so-bad-it's-good absurdity. Why spend the money and time when his target audience doesn't care?

100% guessing, of course. No inside knowledge of production and I'm not the dude's therapist or anything.

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Re: Will Somebody Please Explain This Shit?

Oh, also, they're releasing  this one in 3D -- and as far as I can tell, they shot it that way natively rather than converting. So I guess instead of doing two times the work, they're doing half the work twice.

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Re: Will Somebody Please Explain This Shit?

I don't know. The lines on the prosthetic chin are really obvious in that second clip at around 6 seconds. Maybe Rodriguez was never happy with it and decided to go with something different, and that turned out just as bad and more exaggerated.

But I agree with Michael. Rodriguez never grew into the film maker he showed promise of. He probably thinks he's just cashing in on a grindhouse trend until he busts out a blockbuster, but I think he may find himself stuck in the grindhouse permanently.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: Will Somebody Please Explain This Shit?

I will always be grateful to Rodriguez in the way I will always be grateful to Kevin Smith for inspiring me to try this shit.  That said, neither filmmaker lived up to the promise of the premises of their personal narratives.  Same goes for Matty Rich.  It kinda goes back to that gag from Garth Merenghi's Darkplace where he says, "I've actually written more books than I've read."  All three filmmakers got shot into public consciousness long before they had finished maturing in their craft.  In the end, you're left with serious arrested development in terms of sensibilities.  I kinda feel bad for Rodriguez because he did the noble thing by essentially creating a cottage film industry in Austin (along with Linklater) and is personally responsible for a lot of people's careers.  The drawback is, he's gotta keep making films in order to support them, and not to satisfy his own artistic rhythms.  Hence, all three Spy Kod movies, The Spirit, Machete's 1 through however many, and now Sin Coty 2.

Eddie Doty

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Re: Will Somebody Please Explain This Shit?

He should pull a Spielberg and produce films to support that stuff, only directing when there's something he really wants to do. However, it's also possible that those ARE the films he artistically wants to create.

I write stories! With words!
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Re: Will Somebody Please Explain This Shit?

Ya, Rodriguez's career is depressing as hell. To have a "big budget" debut with something as awesome and passionate as Desperado, and then with each successive movie embracing the worst elements of the previous movie and just getting gradually and gradually shittier, instead of the opposite. If his takeaway from his first 2 films had been a greater sense of restraint and better focus on story, he could've turned into a filmmaker on the level of Tarantino, but he went the exact opposite route. Much as I like From Dusk Till Dawn, it's blindingly apparent with those 2 halves why Tarantino became a great and why Rodriguez didn't. I can't think of another case of a successful, exciting genre filmmaker devolving over the course of a decade to making essentially shitty youtube fan-films.

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Re: Will Somebody Please Explain This Shit?

There should be a Stonecutters-type secret society of directors who started as great and progressively got worse. The Downhill Club. (Shamaylan's the chairman.)

I have a soft spot in my heart for those guys. It's like someone whose greatest achievements were in high school, and the rest of his life is just a succession of failures.

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Re: Will Somebody Please Explain This Shit?

Rob wrote:

There should be a Stonecutters-type secret society of directors who started as great and progressively got worse. The Downhill Club. (Shamaylan's the chairman.)

Ridley Scott, George Lucas, Peter Jackson, Martin Scorsese. Love ya early work dudes.

The usual trajectory is a bell curve - start off small, work your way up to greatness, and then decline as the brain's creativity ossifies. Prediction: Fincher, Nolan, and Aronofsky will follow this path too (some would say they already have).

The average director has about 10 good years in him (where budget and peak creativity intersect). Anything longer is a bonus. There are exceptions (e.g. Kubrick, Spielberg), but I'm talking about the majority.

not long to go now...

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Re: Will Somebody Please Explain This Shit?

I think you're talking about different things here though. The case of guys like Rodriguez and Kevin Smith is that they never got to the point where they were making great movies in the first place. They had a promising debut film, then chased all their worst impulses and never made anything that significant again.

And either way, I wouldn't throw Ridley Scott or Scorcese into your category. Scorsese has made great movies across 4 decades (with some misses in between, no doubt). Ridley Scott has always been hit or miss, he's alternated between massive highs and lows his entire career, and while he is admittedly on a bit of a downslope for 3 movies now, I'm quiet looking forward to Exodus.

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Re: Will Somebody Please Explain This Shit?

Yeah... tossing Scorsese into the category of directors who "started great and got worse" is odd.

Lucas definitely goes in the category, and Ridley Scott is arguable*, but Scorsese's career has been, like, one of the best possible career arcs any director could hope for:

He's been directing features since 1967. His third movie was one of his masterpieces, and so was his twentieth movie, with masterpieces scattered in between. He's had big hits, been nominated for oodles of awards, and received rapturous critical acclaim multiple times in every decade he's worked except the '60s (during which he made just one feature). And it's inarguable that he's done some of his most interesting stuff 20, 30, 35 years into his career (GoodFellas, Hugo, The Departed, TWOWS--not exactly bland, creatively bankrupt movies). Plus, if you're labeling Taxi Driver as "early stuff," it's worth pointing out that that's not early stuff. Scorsese had been making features (six of 'em) for over a decade when Taxi Driver comes out. He's literally one of the last directors on Earth I'd ever think to label as "started strong, petered-out."

* Ridley Scott started out of the gate with great acclaim---The Duelists, Alien, Blade Runner--then things got iffy, but he did win Best Picture in 2000--that can't just be brushed aside; Black Hawk Down and Thelma & Louise are in there too. This is a different trajectory than, say, Shamaylan--where it's just been just a steady descent into mediocrity.

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Re: Will Somebody Please Explain This Shit?

Yeah, I actually prefer Scorcese's more recent stuff to be honest.

Eddie Doty

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Re: Will Somebody Please Explain This Shit?

There's also a difference between a talented person who rests on laurels and/or gets lazy (Kevin Smith) and someone who never had it to begin with. Shamaylan, to me, is the latter. The fact that The Sixth Sense is such a good movie seems almost like an accident when you look (if you dare) at everything else he's done.

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Re: Will Somebody Please Explain This Shit?

Rob wrote:

There's also a difference between a talented person who rests on laurels and/or gets lazy (Kevin Smith) and someone who never had it to begin with. Shamaylan, to me, is the latter. The fact that The Sixth Sense is such a good movie seems almost like an accident when you look (if you dare) at everything else he's done.

Well, it seems that he tried to capitalize on "The Twist" that worked in "6th Sense." I thought he was doing pretty good with "Unbreakable" and "The Village" but that was really the last of his work that I found interesting or engaging.

I would agree that Shamaylan may have had more of a lucky streak, and depended too much on the one type of filming trick, causing a quick fizzle.

God loves you!

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Re: Will Somebody Please Explain This Shit?

http://io9.com/how-badly-will-sin-city- … 1621451688

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Re: Will Somebody Please Explain This Shit?

Didn't Prime Focus just buy DNeg, too?

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Will Somebody Please Explain This Shit?

Yeah, though as I recall there's some weird corporate ouroboros going on where DNeg owns a chunk of Prime Focus' parent company, and Prime Focus is now a controlling shareholder in DNeg (or not? As I recall DNeg insisted they won't be controlling operations but I think just numerically they have a controlling interest).

I guess that's no different than an individual owning stock in the company they work for... but it's still a bit wonky.

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