Topic: "The Expendables" series

This series is probably, by now, one of the biggest missed opportunities ever.

The 3rd one, which I just saw, really cemented it for me. I spent entire sequences, minutes at a time, completely apathetic as I watched the screen. It's been a long time since something so completely failed to grab my attention.

The visual language, editing and shooting style is so utterly disjointed, it's often hard to see how 2 consecutive shots even fit together. Everything seems to be shot in inserts, and you rarely get any master or overview shots to show relationships between different parts of the scene.
The CGI for the most part is terrible and stands out like a sore thumb. In EX3 they even completely CG a helicopter explosion. The helicopter in question is on the ground, completely stationary. They didn't even bother getting a helicopter shell and packing it with real explosives.

It also doesn't help that they keep packing even more people in front of the camera. The core group of actors in the first one were already plenty, but you could atleast fit them all comfortably in one frame, and if they were all involved in an action scene, you could comfortably divide them in such a way that you had 2 or 3 groups that could be intercut with each other, and the viewer could retain the information and track them all.

EX3 has a final battle which goes on, and on, and on, and on. Never do you really know what's going on, because they are literally trying to track and cut between 10+ people all doing different things, and barely doing anything as a group to make them easier to keep track of cognitively.
Because all people also need their screentime and moment to shine, there is absolutely no pacing to the editing or action. The music reflects this aswell, it's just 10 minutes straight of climax music. The editing pace never seems to depart from a disorienting 1 second per cut average, and after just a minute or so of the action scene, you are already so bombarded with images and sound that it's impossible to think ahead, to try and anticipate where the movie is going or what the actors are going into/are in peril of. All you can do is passively react to flashes of images and one-liners. Every time they cut between these 10+ people all doing their thing, it's like I'm seeing them for the first time. "OK, what is this person doing again?".

EX3 was to me worse, way worse, than any Transformers movie in this respect. Bay would atleast sometimes use gratuituous slowmotion which gives your brain a second to breathe, and he actually seemed to have access to wide-angle lenses. EX3 uses neither.

The action is also mindnumbingly staged, again no effort is put into building any tension whatsoever, bad guys just come around corners or through windows and are disposed of. "There's a bad g- ...And there he goes...".


Normally I wouldn't care, but when they've got this kind of pedigree in front of the camera, it just blows my mind that this is what they come up with. Even a 90 minute movie filled with nothing but homages to, or entire lifted scenes, from the actors previous movies would be preferable, since the movies that came before (the Rambo series, Rocky series, Jet Lis martial arts movies, Arnolds films, hell even Dolphs films) all had, at the very least, an older, more mature sense of style in their execution.

Just had to vent a bit, feel free to give some feedback if you've got any.

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Re: "The Expendables" series

Squiggly_P wrote:

I thinkt he saddest thing about the series is that the first two were R rated, and they went in knowing that, but aside from the fact that they drop a couple F-bombs and have a few bloody kills, there's not much there to warrant the R. It's like they put in barely enough to hit that rating because they promised an R-rated throwback movie, and then they stopped. They didn't experiment with it. It's the most generic action possible.

A lot of the time, the team with split up so they can all have their separate fights or whatever, but those sequences aren't tied together. Group A doesn't need to achieve a thing in order for Group B to move in. They don't raise the stakes by having Group A then fail that objective or get captured. That's the way those old awesome 80s flicks were written, and that's supposed to be the style they're trying to nail. People who like the first one claim it's some kind of throwback movie, but it's not at all. It's a generic modern action film that just happens to have old action stars in it.

Those old films had a much better structure to them, with clearly defined sequences that broke the film up into chunks. That's one of the reasons I consider The Raid to be one of the best throwback films, even though it's not really trying to be that. That film has one location, and yet there's a very clear set of lines drawn that separate the various little chunks of that movie, and you can name them off to people and people will know exactly what sequence you're talking about, even though the film all takes place in one building. When I say "The drug lab" or "The hallway fight" or "The elevator scene" you just know what scenes I'm talking about. The Matrix was the same way. They clearly define the places where the action happens, and those places comprise a sequence all on their own where they do everything they can think of in that one area. The setting for the action is as much a character as the guys fighting.

Can you do that with The Expendables films at all? I barely remember any of the scenes from the first film, and I've seen that flick twice. I remember they have a shootout in some tropical location, and there's a fight at the end between Stallone and someone else I'm probably supposed to remember. The locations all look like generic bunkers and courtyards where there are some sandbags and barbed wire fencing and crates full of C4 to blow up. I can't point to any one sequence and go "yup, that's that one scene". That one fight between Stallone and the other guy at the end (Lundgren?) is the only one that springs to mind.

I've not watched the other two, because I really didn't like the first one at all. They promised a hardcore 80's throwback action flick with lots of bad-ass old guys throwing down and fucking shit up, and they delivered a generic late-90's Straight-To-Video flick where the good guys point their guns at people and go 'pew pew pew' and the generic guys do that "oh no I'm being shot a lot" flailing thing and then fall over. Nothing genuinely interesting or fun. You gotta have those moments that stand out, and you have to delineate the sequences into little stand-alone chunks that all have their own little 3 act structure and raising of stakes and those little stand-out moments.

Indiana Jones And The Last Crusade is one of the best examples out there. The boat sequence. The tank sequence. The plane escape. The castle escape / motorbike chase. The tank sequence, especially. It's one of the best action scenes ever put to film.

Yep, I agree with everything here.

In particular the cheap feeling that comes from everything seeming so disjointed. Not just that the story doesn't always tie everything together in a nice way, like the actions of character a affecting character B, who then has to get to character C, etc.
But also that it feels like everyone came in and shot their scenes at different times, there's so little interaction once the action scenes start, particularly in the last 2. It feels like 3 movies, with the same color grade and cinematographical style, were intercut, so it feels completely jumbled and you're not sure who is shooting at what, and how it all connects.

The first one I still can give a pass to, because it had some nice action scenes (remember the plane sequence with Jason Statham on the nose of the plane lighting up a pier?), and like mentioned before, it was a big cast, but still manageable.

The last 2 are just generic, teal-and-orange-colored soulless machine productions. It feels a bit like someone imitating the style of an action film without understanding what makes it truly interesting, tense or riveting.

Also like you mentioned Squiggly, the complete absence of structure within the action scenes is also completely detrimental. You're looking at a car chase, but you're never sure who is in either car, both cars look similar in shape and color as they flash by in poorly cheographed editing and camera positions, and you're not sure what is at stake; there may be no staked at all other than "kill them or they kill us".

The 3rd one has almost entirely CGI helicopter vs helicopter chase scenes that look like a poor video game, and then it just cuts to insert shots of Harrison Ford saying quips as he allegedly pilots one of said CGI helicopters. There's just no effort for believability, and as a result I couldn't care less.

The only places where the 3rd one got remotely interesting was when they locked the camera down and had an actual conversation, which happens about 3 times in total for maybe 8 minutes of screen time. Mel Gibson may be batshit crazy but he can still out-act pretty much everyone else as a villain.

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Re: "The Expendables" series

Ya, the disconnectedness is a huge problem. You get no sense of geography, or characters having a goal their trying to achieve and obstacles they have to overcome, it's all just chaos and shooting (in the case of this 3rd one, shooting without any bullet impacts). The CG is terrible too. I don't know who does the effects for Millenium Films, but they suck really hard.

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Re: "The Expendables" series

bullet3 wrote:

The CG is terrible too. I don't know who does the effects for Millenium Films, but they suck really hard.

It's never the artists' fault.

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Re: "The Expendables" series

Good point, I ammend my comment. Millennium Films seems to not fund or give proper time to their FX artists smile

It's weird though, its a 100 million dollar production. I know the cast takes up a lot of that, but you'd think there wouldn't be Asylum level effects-work all over the place.

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