Topic: Um..Shia?

Yeah, I really don't know what to say to this.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jordanzakarin/s … rd-cantour

Last edited by Eddie (2013-12-17 00:23:35)

Eddie Doty

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Re: Um..Shia?

At first, I thought it was funny that the guy who starred in Disturbia, Eagle Eye, and the Transformers films would have a beef with film critics. But...yeah. Wow.

So, does he just not understand how the internet works? It's not like this comic is some ancient text that was almost lost to the endless march of history. It's from six years ago. How did he think that he would get away with this?

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

Twitter | Tumblr, for links to all my writing.

Re: Um..Shia?

I'll say.......NononononononoNO!

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Re: Um..Shia?

Way to go, dude. Way to go.

http://i.imgur.com/CHINdB3.jpg

Sébastien Fraud
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Re: Um..Shia?

The Vimeo link for the film now requires a password. Man, what a shitshow.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

Twitter | Tumblr, for links to all my writing.

Re: Um..Shia?

Link works for me on laptop and phone.

It's really astounding. The opening at least is shot-for-shot, line-for-line identical. This isn't something you can pass off as accidental after having read the original several years ago.

It's quite a good film, tho; the acting and cinematography (Matthew Irving) are terrific, and the music is good, if a bit obtrusive. If anything, it's the source material that's weak. A film critic is fed up with art-house directors and the critics who like them? Meh.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: Um..Shia?

[Note, pre-post, no edits: kinda drunk, and now succumbing to Ambien.]

As someone who didn't know it was similar to anything, watching the rough cut in a wee little edit bay, alone with and telling Shia my opinion for the piece in its rough-cut stage... I had a couple thoughts, yeah, but generally I was into it.

My read at the time certainly wasn't "you are ripping off a seminal piece of work that everybody fucking knows about." If anything, I thought it was kinda... whiny. And I gave Shia that credit because if anyone has earned the right to throw the occasional elbow at the film-crit establishment, he has. So, is it my fault for not knowing that another piece of pop culture has tackled this perspective before? Is it his fault for "stealing" it? Is it your fault for getting all up in Buzzfeed arms about him ripping off a comic I've never heard any of you talk about before? Or is it just a thing?

Shit like this can always seem a lot more "oh my god what a plagiarizing prick" in way-retrospect on the internet, but none of that reaction happens without the fanbase of one thing or another saying "hey, this was THIS FIRST" in shrill tones on an article somewhere. And as someone who has benefited personally from shitting on Surrogates for stealing its sci-fi tropes from other movies, and also been accused of stealing that observation from Cracked, and as someone who has been "stolen" from when it comes to opinions about The Phantom Menace in Red Letter Media reviews... you know what? Sometimes, different folks get to have the same feelings about a thing. And I'm right now calling you all out for jumping on the bandwagon.



Pussy-ass disclaimer: I haven't seen the thing he's ostensibly cribbing. So, yep, no credit to be had. All I can say, as an acquaintance of the man, is that he doesn't strike me as a piece of shit - and if anything he struck me as a creative guy with something to say. And I've never heard of this thing you guys have apparently all read and memorized.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Um..Shia?

No really Teague, tell us what you really think.

/joke

Seriously though. I'm just gonna let this one play out before I start making any judgements or start casting down the almighty hell fires of hades down upon the bastard Shia.

Waaaaay to many times does thing kind of thing wind up being some sensationalized misunderstanding or miscommunication.

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: Um..Shia?

He's chalking it up to "excitement and naiveté as an amateur filmmaker".  Not sure that's going to fly...

https://twitter.com/thecampaignbook

So basically he made a fanfilm.

Re: Um..Shia?

Ok, I am not familiar with all the technical terms in the film industry, so bear with me, but you can't submit unoriginal work to Cannes, right?

God loves you!

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Re: Um..Shia?

Teague wrote:

So, is it my fault for not knowing that another piece of pop culture has tackled this perspective before? Is it his fault for "stealing" it? Is it your fault for getting all up in Buzzfeed arms about him ripping off a comic I've never heard any of you talk about before? Or is it just a thing?

Yeah, it's not that he's tackling "the same perspective" as another work. It's that he is LITERALLY using VERBATIM dialogue from someone else's work without giving that someone else the appropriate credit, making some changes here and there, and trying to pass it off as his own. That's plagiarism, straight up, and it's not cool.

Teague wrote:

And I've never heard of this thing you guys have apparently all read and memorized.

Neither had I until it was pointed out that Shia plagiarized it. Which he did, flat out. Whether or not you've heard of it before is not relevant.

On Twitter he's trying to pass it off that he just didn't know better. As Trey says, for someone who's been in the business a long time, I don't think that balloon is gonna fly. I think he just thought it was obscure enough that no one would notice.

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Re: Um..Shia?

Inspiration is one thing, LIFTING WHOLE LINES OF DIALOGUE AND IMAGES DOWN TO THE FRAME, is fucking stealing.  I, much like Shia, am a fan of Daniel Clowes.  I, much like Shia, read the original comic.  I'm sorry but this is beyond inspiration.  You having similar opinions on Surrogates to Cracked is one thing, but if you on our podcast literally read Cracked's description of the movie and did not credit them, you would be stealing too. 

I like Shia a lot, I have respected his work.  But the evidence here is damning.  I highly recommend watching his film and reading the aforementioned book.  It dispels any idea that Shia was "inspired."

Last edited by Eddie (2013-12-17 07:20:15)

Eddie Doty

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Re: Um..Shia?

Well, now Patton Oswalt and other Twitterati have a hold of this one, so Shia's gonna be in internet jail for a bit.

Re: Um..Shia?

Trey wrote:

Well, now Patton Oswalt and other Twitterati have a hold of this one, so Shia's gonna be in internet jail for a bit.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4Mpa6rjn9YA/S_wmU5BYRlI/AAAAAAAAAjU/cHOvPVrcS8I/s1600/Image001.jpg
http://31.media.tumblr.com/b9bce85cb4cf6562256ad3b626e84dac/tumblr_mwidzvBcJN1qaawxro1_400.jpg

God loves you!

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Re: Um..Shia?

Teague wrote:

I haven't seen the thing he's ostensibly cribbing.

I'd never heard of it either, but the first page of the comic is reproduced in the Buzzfeed article. Characters, setting, some shots, verbatim dialog... Yikes.

Sergio Leone and FW Murnau did the same thing. A decent check makes this all better.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: Um..Shia?

I'd be willing to bet the comic artist would've let him do it for free, and happily, if he'd just asked and given credit where due.

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Re: Um..Shia?

Dorkman wrote:

I'd be willing to bet the comic artist would've let him do it for free, and happily, if he'd just asked and given credit where due.

Maybe.  Clowes is hit and miss with adaptations.  He was cool with Ghost Workd but I know he's blocked other stuff.  It's just so crazy because Shia has specifically referenced Clowes before in interviews.  Whole thing is just super disappointing.

Eddie Doty

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Re: Um..Shia?

Ya. I get sort of where Teague would be coming from hypothetically, as we're a community with more than one fan filmmaker, and have espoused in the past "ask forgiveness, not permission", but verbatim stealing other people's work uncredited is NEVER ok.

You would get expelled from University if you pulled that shit, and fired if you tried it at work.
ESPECIALLY for someone high profile and rich like Shia, who's been in the business long enough to know better.

Also, Patton Oswalt is crushing this on Twitter right now.

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Re: Um..Shia?

Even in the fan film world, it's not like we pretended we came up with the shit ourselves. I mean, most fan films went so far as to credit Ben Burtt for creating the lightsaber sounds we hacked together.

EDIT: And just to be clear, I don't think Shia is a monster or whatever. But he did wrong and that needs to have consequences of SOME kind so he can't pretend not to know better next time.

Last edited by Dorkman (2013-12-17 07:50:33)

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Re: Um..Shia?

Dorkman wrote:

Even in the fan film world, it's not like we pretended we came up with the shit ourselves. I mean, most fan films went so far as to credit Ben Burtt for creating the lightsaber sounds we hacked together.

That's ri- wait, what?  *runs away*

Anyway, it's just so odd to me why he would think he'd get away with it.   Even if he'd plagiarized something one-tenth as well known as Clowes' comic, THIS IS THE INTERNET.  There's always somebody who'll recognize it.    "Naivete" just doesn't seem like enough to 'splain it.

Re: Um..Shia?

Yeah, I didn't get really pissed about it until after his half hearted, aw-shucks apology.  Of it was just similar I could forgive but it's so much more than that.  And he's a smart dude so plant me firmly in the "baffled," camp.

Last edited by Eddie (2013-12-17 07:58:05)

Eddie Doty

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Re: Um..Shia?

Now he's getting warmer....

https://twitter.com/thecampaignbook/sta … 3649496064

Re: Um..Shia?

Trey wrote:

Now he's getting warmer....

https://twitter.com/thecampaignbook/sta … 3649496064

Yeah.  Patton bit the nail on the head.  Even if he had credited Clowes, maybe Clowes didn't WANT this adapted.  It's not Shia's place to do this without permission.  Again, no winners here.  Whole thing just sucks.

Eddie Doty

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Re: Um..Shia?

Eddie wrote:

Yeah.  Patton bit the nail on the head.  Even if he had credited Clowes, maybe Clowes didn't WANT this adapted.  It's not Shia's place to do this without permission.  Again, no winners here.  Whole thing just sucks.

Eh, from that perspective as a fan film guy I would have been able to see where he was coming from. If he'd credited Clowes and Clowes had balked, I think Shia's "whoops, I was naive and just a big fan" defense would've flown, in the court of public opinion if not actual, y'know, courts. But this is just a trainwreck.

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Re: Um..Shia?

Maybe I'm partial to the medium but I'm getting fucking tired of Comic Book writers getting fucked every time their work hits a screen.  Ed Brubaker, the guy who created the Winter Soldier character is not going to see a dime or even a screen credit when the next Captain America hits the screen.  Shia knows better.

Eddie Doty

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