Topic: ROGUE ONE. ALL THE SPOILERS. Seriously, don't go in here.

I haven't been this excited after watching a Star Wars movie in more than a decade.

It's a very, very good film.

Spoilers ho:

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Tarkin was pretty damn well done, if you ask me. He's CG, obviously, but well done. Leia shared the same treatment, and was pretty damn good too. I also didn't expect to see Bail Organa in there, good show.

Last edited by Tomahawk (2016-12-14 21:50:36)

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Re: ROGUE ONE. ALL THE SPOILERS. Seriously, don't go in here.

I liked it a fair bit.

Random observations and opinions, mostly of the nitpicky variety:

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Obviously, it looks and sounds great and I got no problem with any of the actors. Except, I thought the pilot guy was fairly bland. The music is fine, but I'd have to give it another listen to know for sure how I feel about it in the grand scheme of things.

I though the opening (after the prologue) was awkward. I generally don't like it when a movie's just cutting from one new character to another like this rather than introducing them gradually as they come into direct contact with our main characters and the main narrative.

I really don't think we needed the chyrons popping up and telling us where we where each time it cut to a new location. Felt very un-Star Warsy to me.

I found the first appearance of Bail Organa, where he just steps out of the shadows without saying anything, really anticlimactic, but I loved having him back once he actually started talking. As an admitted fan of the prequels, I thought it was really neat to have that link between the old and the new.

Go away Ponda Baba and Dr. Evazan. You don't get to show up and shout a catchphrase at our main characters just so the audience (who mostly don't even recognize you) might get a cheap thrill.

I didn't know that Tarkin was gonna be in it and thought that was a great surprise. The CG wasn't great, but that didn't bother me at all. I'm still (and will continue to be for a long time) in love with the idea of younger (and now dead) versions of older actors showing up in contemporary movies. However,  I found his voice incredibly distracting. If you're gonna try and make the character look like Peter Cushing, you got to nail the voice, and I really didn't feel like they did. I admire the overall effort though.

Thought the first big Vader scene was bad. I can't really explain why, but I felt like Vader was saying a lot of vaguely Vader-like things, but none of it felt important enough to actually penetrate my brain. It was like they were so excited to have JEJ back that they thought they could coast on that instead of actually writing a meaty scene for him.

The brief reference too Obi-Wan is a moment I don't mind in theory, but I thought the execution was lacking. The awkward way things had to be phrased just so they didn't say his actual name came across as clumsy writing to me. Might sound better on a rewatch though.

Thought the Threepio and Artoo appearance was a little random with them just standing around at Yavin 4. If they'd been boarding Tantive IV when we saw them, I would have been more okay with it, I think. (This is hella nitpicky, I know)

Loved seeing and hearing Red and Gold Leader in the final battle. I found that incredibly charming. Couldn't help but wonder if anyone else in the theater recognized them from ANH. Seems unlikely...

Didn't expect Jyn to die. "Pleasantly" surprised. I'm enjoying how unspoiled I am for these new Star Wars movies comparted to the prequels.

The last Vader scene was kind of an eye roll moment for me. I guess it's all those years on TFn with people talking about how awesome it would be to see Vader let loose with the force and his lightsaber. I guess I never felt like I needed it or thought it would be cool.  And at that point, I was more focused on if we'd actually get to see Leia or not... which leads me to:

I've actually been predicting a young Leia appearance at the end of this movie since it was announced. I thought for sure it would be a fuzzy hologram appearance though, so this nonsurprise ended up being a nice surprise. The appearance was brief, so there wasn't a lot of time to notice if the CG was good or not, which in and of itself is great. The last line is hoaky as hell, but I still got a little misty.

It struck me towards the end of the movie that I liked the pacing of this one quite a bit better than ep VII. The camera is more relaxed and scenes are actually allowed to play out without an ACTION BEAT having to interrupt anything resembling exposition or even just dialogue.  Also, it didn't feel like it was rehashing as many plot elements as ep VII did, which was nice.

That's it for now, I think... I'll probably think of something else the second I hit the 'submit' button. 

Like I said, I liked it. Will definitely slot it in on my next rewatch of the whole saga when it's time to start gearing up for ep VIII.

Last edited by Hansen (2016-12-14 22:12:02)

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Re: ROGUE ONE. ALL THE SPOILERS. Seriously, don't go in here.

This mirrors ROTJ for me in that it has a mildly enjoyable but fairly flawed first two acts followed by an absolute bonkers third act. The biggest flaw for me was its character work—outside of Krennic and K-2S0, none of the characters really felt like anything more than a collection of characteristics rather than a fully fleshed-out person.

Also, people can stop harping on the callbacks in TFA now, because the ones in this movie were actively obnoxious. Evazan and Ponda Baba were the nadir—absolutely no logic to their appearance. In addition to the shoehorned gags, the more substantial links to the original film really backfired in places. CG Tarkin didn't work at all for me, even though his inclusion is essential for the wonderful dramatic irony of Krennic's end, and to be honest I'm rather offended on Cushing's behalf. Vader was also a problem—the filmmakers applied too much of a good thing, dampening the impact of his big moment on the blockade runner with the earlier scene which doesn't serve much purpose save making sure the audience knows he's in the film.

Fortunately, those callback gags were the least funny moments in a film that overall had a surprisingly strong sense of humor. I do wish it hadn't felt the need to step on its own jokes at points, though—"Are you kidding me?" works perfectly well without the "I'm blind!" followup to make sure the audience got it; ditto "I can survive in space."

And as I said above, HOLY FUCK THAT THIRD ACT YOU GUYS. It's gotta be one of the greatest sequences of sustained action of the last several years, certainly the greatest of this year. Add to the thrills of the first truly climactic space battle in ages and the glory that is Vader wreaking havoc the fact that they actually fucking did that—let even the plucky lead be wiped out by an incoming nuclear shock wave—and it's undoubtedly the greatest Star Wars climax since ROTJ, even if I personally prefer the forest duel in TFA. Also, that reference footage of Red and Gold leaders is genuinely euphoria-inducing in a way that the ugly CG on Tarkin and Leia can't hope to be. And it goes without saying that every frame that doesn't have uncanny Moff in it is just gorgeous.

And as much as I think the characters were underused, the casting was pretty spot on. In addition to their acting ability, I think it is genuinely impactful and important to see a lead cast comprised entirely of a woman and people of color onscreen in the biggest blockbuster of the year, whether its implications were intended or not. Mads Mikkelsen is underused, of course, but after The Hunt and Hannibal I'm resigned to feeling that way about him whenever he appears onscreen anywhere else.

So, yeah. An uneven flick that's elevated by its genuinely insane climax. 4 out of 5 stars. Fifth in my ranked list of SW films (ESB>SW>TFA>ROTJ>R1>ROTS>TPM>AOTC), #10 of the 28 films I've seen in 2016.

Last edited by DarthPraxus (2016-12-17 01:48:10)

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Re: ROGUE ONE. ALL THE SPOILERS. Seriously, don't go in here.

It was a bit slow to start with but by the end, it really gets there. It felt like watching one of the novels, one of the better ones, not Crystal Star.

Mads Mikkelsen was good as Qwi Xux

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Re: ROGUE ONE. ALL THE SPOILERS. Seriously, don't go in here.

My review:

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Re: ROGUE ONE. ALL THE SPOILERS. Seriously, don't go in here.

Oh, we're marking spoilers in a thread marked "Spoilers" in the title? Alright.

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I pretty much knew going in that they were going to do a Halo: Reach. "Huh, a prequel directly preceding the first entry, with characters that aren't in the first entry. Alright, line 'em up and knock 'em down." That being said I still enjoyed the trip very much.

I look forward to a second viewing; the first was full of surprises, some of which may have been a bit too distracting (Red/Gold Leaders was my personal favorite, having heard those exact lines many times before in succession), so being able to focus on just what's being said in the first Tarkin scene will be welcome.

As for Tarkin himself, my wife and I first thought he was just going to be played in one scene, in a reflection; it was certainly more convincing. The facial animation was astounding, on par with the best stuff from this year's Kingsglaive: Final Fantasy XV at its very best - but that still sits with a foot dipped in the uncanny valley when placed next to live action. Movements just too fluid, and so forth. I found the Cushing vocal impersonation to be perfectly fine. Leia only had one shot that didn't last long enough for me to pick apart, loved it.

Vader's first scene was... eesh. Maybe a year after Anakin assuming the mantle, but not a day before he storms the Tantive IV and does curls with Captain Antilles. He was too restless, too chatty, didn't sound right, and oh my GOD did you just say, "Don't choke on your ambitions"? I have a mind to smack you for that, Vader.

I was okay with Evanzen and Ponda Baba but felt the camera lingered on them just a bit too long; and R2 and 3PO were definitely shoehorned.

The pacing at the start was a bit breakneck.

Aaand that's it for my nitpicks. That's how film critique works, right, point out the stuff that bugged you?

I absolutely loved this movie. Maybe more than TFA; obviously too soon to tell. Ragtag bunch of misfits saving the galaxy; pretty much what it's all about.

Boter, formerly of TF.N as Boter and DarthArjuna. I like making movies and playing games, in one order or another.

Re: ROGUE ONE. ALL THE SPOILERS. Seriously, don't go in here.

Not putting this in spoilers because why.

I can't believe that anyone would condone CGI Tarkin. It was firmly in the uncanny valley and the ethics of the whole thing are just so fucked.

If I had had a drink, I would've spit it out when he appeared--and stayed, for the whole movie, as a prominent character--on screen. Also, Leia looked awful and weird, like a ventriloquist doll. I think the ending would've been far stronger had she not been there, especially considering how awful her only line was. Having Organa hint at her was nice, hell even seeing her from the back was nice, but going full Charlie McCarthy with her was just insane.

Also, why weren't 3P0 and R2 on the blockade ship rather than on Yavin IV? It made no sense for them to be there and was pure, unadulterated, pointless fan service--something this movie had far too much of. I thought TFA was bad, but hollllly shit.

Vader brought the puns. But that is not that character, sorry guys. Seeing him mow people down was fantastic--needed more of that, to be honest--but having him quip like a Bond villain was too much. Also, sorry James but you don't quite have the crack in your voice anymore. I would've been okay with him being recast.

I missed John Williams. Also, why use the Skywalker theme anywhere in this movie. It's now the standard "ooo, epic moment!" theme in Star Wars.

I'm just so done with Disney's Blockbusters. They all feel like Avengers. Same uneven pacing, same unfocused tone, same underdeveloped exposition, same unnecessarily large casts with mostly undeveloped characters, same vaguely "epic" feeling cinematography, same blocky dialogue, same "funny moment" timing, usually followed shortly after by the same melodramatic moments.

CGI Tarkin is a fantastic metaphor for the entire rest of the film.

Last edited by Alex (2016-12-17 01:09:12)

Re: ROGUE ONE. ALL THE SPOILERS. Seriously, don't go in here.

After the first scene with Tarkin, I settled in for it. I think my problem with cgi faces in these movies is something Boter said: it's a tad too...smooth. Like people's faces have tiny herky-jerky tics when we talk. It's not even something you could point at and say "That's it!" but we can tell when it's not there. There were moments it worked better than others, but in this movie full of CGI that didn't scream "I'm CGI!" (everything about the space battles) I'll forgive it.

The fanservice in this movie didn't bug me because it was either A) Super brief (although yeah, R2 and 3PO should have been on the Tantive) or B) relevant to the action (of course Red and Gold leaders would be there). They didn't allout copy Star Wars '77 like TFA felt. It could have been left out, but at least it didn't undermine the climax because we knew how it was going to play out.

Rogue One also felt way less "OMG LOOK AT THAT" in its pacing. Scenes played out nicely.

I was looking forward to seeing Donnie Yen kick ass, and it was really cool to see the Force-aided Kung-Fu, especially after TFA so badly wasted the guys from The Raid.

The blockade runner sequence was awesome. Watching those guys crash into the destroyer and then pushing it into the other and THEN the gate was amazing, and I really liked the unexpected solution to the problem. Instead of "Hey let's find the Gate's weak spot and hit it with a torpedo" it was "LET'S SMASH TWO FREAKING STAR DESTROYERS INTO THE WHOLE DAMN THING!" It was wonderful.

I do agree that Vader's first scene was a bit weird, and unnecessary. It would have been much better if his appearance at the battle was the first time we saw him. And seeing him wreak havoc was so cool.

Finally, I can't tell you how happy it made me that everyone died at the end. I mean, it was sad. But as a story that's EXACTLY what needed to happen, and it was great. Poignant.

I liked this movie. I liked it a lot. And it made me so excited to watch Star Wars '77 again, which I'm now signing off to do.

TL;DR I think Edwards' Star Wars is less frenetic than Abrams', and though it had cheese, I felt it was no more cheesy than the original installments had. I approve.

PS One thing they didn't do that disappointed me was show the Death Star coming out of hyperspace. They even had a line 'Something massive coming out of hyperspace' and then cut to it already there. I would love to see that monster just BOOMING into sight. Oh well. And speaking of the Death Star, it was cool to see it dialed down and the secondary destruction cause by the planet's mantle breaking through like a megavolcano. Awesome.

Last edited by Writhyn (2016-12-18 00:08:41)

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While CGI Tarkin didn't bother me much, I found Leia's face a little unsettling. Not as disturbing as the Yoda puppet from The Phantom Menace, but still creepy.

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Writhyn wrote:

Rogue One also felt way less "OMG LOOK AT THAT" in its pacing. Scenes played out nicely.

While this movie's pacing was better than TFA's, I still felt it was pretty bad--especially at the beginning. I appreciated that the movie took its time in a couple of spots, but overall it was still unbalanced and much of the exposition was either hurriedly over-explained or hurriedly under-explained.

Writhyn wrote:

I was looking forward to seeing Donnie Yen kick ass, and it was really cool to see the Force-aided Kung-Fu, especially after TFA so badly wasted the guys from The Raid.

See, but that character felt so wasted to me. It was a great opportunity to explore the post-Jedi world, but like so many things in this movie (and in so many others) it felt like a great idea on paper that was shoehorned into the script because one executive couldn't let it go. I feel that keeping all references to the Force (except for Vader) away from this movie, but showing the soldiers lamenting the fact that a Jedi would be mighty useful, would be far more effective and cleaner.

Writhyn wrote:

The blockade runner sequence was awesome. Watching those guys crash into the destroyer and then pushing it into the other and THEN the gate was amazing, and I really liked the unexpected solution to the problem. Instead of "Hey let's find the Gate's weak spot and hit it with a torpedo" it was "LET'S SMASH TWO FREAKING STAR DESTROYERS INTO THE WHOLE DAMN THING!" It was wonderful.

Agreed, was super awesome.

Writhyn wrote:

Finally, I can't tell you how happy it made me that everyone died at the end. I mean, it was sad. But as a story that's EXACTLY what needed to happen, and it was great. Poignant.

Agreed, but I felt they missed the obvious and most effective way to go about it: they know that the Death Star is going to destroy the planet, it's a race against time, and they just barely get the plans transmitted before they all die. We all in the audience would know that they succeed--that's the problem with prequels--but given how awesome it was to see a planet getting destroyed from the perspective of someone who's on said planet, I think that the tension would've still been extremely high.

Instead, we get a comparatively lethargic sequence where they get the plans off and still have time to kiss each other (can no movie be without a love story anymore? Especially between those two--they had zero chemistry the whole movie).

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There wasn't a love story. They didn't kiss at the end, they just held hands and hugged as they awaited sure death. I know what you mean though. I thought for sure they would kiss, and was pleasantly surprised when they didn't.

As it was, I thought the moment was pretty powerful.

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Alex wrote:

See, but that character felt so wasted to me. It was a great opportunity to explore the post-Jedi world, but like so many things in this movie (and in so many others) it felt like a great idea on paper that was shoehorned into the script because one executive couldn't let it go. I feel that keeping all references to the Force (except for Vader) away from this movie, but showing the soldiers lamenting the fact that a Jedi would be mighty useful, would be far more effective and cleaner.

I see how that could be a good way to do it, but it made sense to me: the old temple was being plundered for crystals, and the other guardian monks were probably killed over time. The troops left this guy alone because he was blind and they underestimated him. He's the pathetic remnant of a bunch of wannabe force-devotees who ends up getting his moment in the end. Maybe that's "wasted" but for me it's fine if a character just gets a moment. And his counterpart, who feels bad for him and sticks around, ends up believing in the end. That's enough of a theme for me: the guy who believes in the force despite everything ends up convincing his friend to believe too. Hope, man. It's everywhere wink

Alex wrote:

given how awesome it was to see a planet getting destroyed from the perspective of someone who's on said planet, I think that the tension would've still been extremely high.

That would, indeed, have been pretty cool. BUT (having just watched it) it's explicitly said in Star Wars '77 that Alderaan was the first real test of the Death Star. Alderaan is the first planet it destroyed. If Rogue One messed with that, it would be weird. That's a necessary constraint of the story. I'm impressed they got around that by firing the Star at a low power. And it made for some damn good visuals.

Alex wrote:

Instead, we get a comparatively lethargic sequence where they get the plans off and still have time to kiss each other (can no movie be without a love story anymore? Especially between those two--they had zero chemistry the whole movie).

I don't remember them kissing, in fact I thought they didn't and was pretty happy. They were both about to die and had come to care for each other in incredibly stressful situations. I don't grudge them a hug, especially since the test at Jedha showed it takes a bit of time for the explosions to propagate across the miles of terrain.

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This movie is a giant piece of shit. Like the last time I was this disengaged and bored by a blockbuster was one of the Transformers movies. Who gives a shit about any of these characters? Why is their mission so poorly defined, to where the movie feels like nothing is happening for 90 minutes. Then they stage this big battle sequence, with mostly anonymous good guys and bad guys you don't give a damn about.

Between Force Awakens being forgettable and this being out and out terrible, I feel everyone owes Lucas an apology.

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bullet3 wrote:

Who gives a shit about any of these characters?

I did. I thought it was a good mix: a lifelong rebel who's questioning his actions perpetrated for "the cause;" a woman who hates Imperials for breaking her family and can't join the rebels because her father is supposedly one of the baddest Imps out there; a blind wannabe force-user who keeps trying to convince himself the Force is with him; the blind guy's friend who feels bad for him and doesn't yet believe; the imperial pilot with a conscience who we see go through the desperate process of defection; the old radical who cares about people but can't let go of his violent ways; a far-too-honest droid who just wants to shoot something; a villain who wants credit for building a superweapon even though everyone knows he just used Galen Erso...

Sure, maybe a couple of them could've been fleshed out more, but I felt like I understood where each person was coming from. It's subjective, sure, but the building blocks were on the screen.

bullet3 wrote:

Why is their mission so poorly defined, to where the movie feels like nothing is happening for 90 minutes. Then they stage this big battle sequence, with mostly anonymous good guys and bad guys you don't give a damn about.

Ok, I get not liking a movie, but this is definitely not true. They articulate their mission like 8 times throughout the film: first they need to find Sal and use Jyn to get him to share info, then they need to find Galen Erso. Jyn wants to get him away from the Imps, and Andor was ordered to kill him.
After this their mission is literally the premise of the entire Star Wars mythos: get the damn Death Star plans. The battle at the end involved plenty of good characters and plenty of grunt soldiers, and lots of space fights all aimed at getting the shield down so the plans could be transferred.

bullet3 wrote:

Between Force Awakens being forgettable and this being out and out terrible, I feel everyone owes Lucas an apology.

I'm with you on TFA being forgettable.

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Was I the only one really really annoyed by how bad Vader's helmet looked? It was like 3 sizes to big, the neck piece stuck out like 5 inches from his neck, and the cloak was hooked under the collar. It looked like a really poorly executed cosplay.

I honestly couldn't even pay attention in his first scene cause it was bugging the ever living shit out of me. And by the last scene I'd gotten used to it, but it still felt like someone pretending to be Vader instead of the ultimate terrifying badass he's supposed to be. (Don't get me wrong, the scene was still flippin awesome, but man, that helmet was just bad.)

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Re: ROGUE ONE. ALL THE SPOILERS. Seriously, don't go in here.

The helmet was the right size but in general he felt too short, so it seemed outsized by comparison. He should have towered over Krennic.

Boter, formerly of TF.N as Boter and DarthArjuna. I like making movies and playing games, in one order or another.

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That's also true, but I can't not see the giant jutting neck piece. It's just so bad.

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I was more distracted by the fact that Vader had quips. That's just not his style. Also that scene would have been so much more badass if he hadn't been doing the pinchy thing. No hand motions, just choking.

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ShadowDuelist wrote:

I was more distracted by the fact that Vader had quips. That's just not his style.

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Yeah, Vaders line there didn't bug me at all, worked fine. Though I do agree about the hand motion, would have worked better without it.

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That's funny! I thought exactly the same thing. His quip was fine, but it would have been cooler if he didn't even bother turning around at all. Just turn his back and keep it turned...although, I'm a firm advocate that Vader's first scene was kinda pointless and that it would have been better if he'd only shown up at Scarif.

Also, maybe his armor and helmet was poorly done because Krennic showed up and Vader was like "Aw crap hurry!" and didn't have time to get the look perfect before his grand entrance ;P

Last edited by Writhyn (2016-12-21 13:16:51)

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Oh BS he'd keep him cooling his heels just to make him sweat. Brush some invisible ash off the shoulder... take your time with it tongue

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Re: ROGUE ONE. ALL THE SPOILERS. Seriously, don't go in here.

Faldor wrote:
ShadowDuelist wrote:

I was more distracted by the fact that Vader had quips. That's just not his style.

Apologie accepted... Captain Needa.

BigDamnArtist wrote:

Yeah, Vaders line there didn't bug me at all, worked fine. Though I do agree about the hand motion, would have worked better without it.

Here's the thing though, Vader's humor is completely, 100% dry. They are not told as jokes, even though they are clever. This line had the cadence of a joke though, which is why if feels off. If he hadn't turned around, maybe just turns his head a bit, delivers the line completely dry, then stops choking him as he walks away, then the line can work. As is, I don't think it does.

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Yeah, it was delivered a bit too punny. You're right in that he's had quips - "Apology accepted," "The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am," - but never puns and never with essentially a wink.

Boter, formerly of TF.N as Boter and DarthArjuna. I like making movies and playing games, in one order or another.

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Alex wrote:

I can't believe that anyone would condone CGI Tarkin. It was firmly in the uncanny valley and the ethics of the whole thing are just so fucked.

I had to confirm suspicions from a couple of friends that he was indeed CG. Now, us guys in here, are mostly trained for this sort of thing. We can tell a CG pixel from an in-camera pixel just fine, and honestly, that's a bit of an issue, that more than once has taken me out of the experience, and I hate myself for it. When Tarkin turned around, which I never thought he would, I was blown away. I didn't EXPECT him to turn around. YES it was CG. YES, it was knee-deep in the uncanny valley. CG humans have never been done perfectly, but Tarkin had a lot of people second guessing it, and some even not knowing, not putting together the pieces, and not necessarily being so much into SW they even know Cushing had dies, or that it was shot some 40 years ago.

Alex wrote:

Leia looked awful and weird, like a ventriloquist doll. I think the ending would've been far stronger had she not been there, especially considering how awful her only line was. Having Organa hint at her was nice, hell even seeing her from the back was nice, but going full Charlie McCarthy with her was just insane.

Actually, upon watching it a second time, she looks even better than Tarkin. Some people call it a dollface, Carrie was quite a dollface back in '77.

Alex wrote:

I missed John Williams. Also, why use the Skywalker theme anywhere in this movie. It's now the standard "ooo, epic moment!" theme in Star Wars.

I actually didn't. I love the soundtrack. Skywalker theme is also about as much a Skywalker Theme as Hedwig's Theme is Hedwig's theme these days. It's a staple, and used in wrong context, and I like it.

bullet3 wrote:

This movie is a giant piece of shit. Like the last time I was this disengaged and bored by a blockbuster was one of the Transformers movies. Who gives a shit about any of these characters? Why is their mission so poorly defined, to where the movie feels like nothing is happening for 90 minutes. Then they stage this big battle sequence, with mostly anonymous good guys and bad guys you don't give a damn about.
Between Force Awakens being forgettable and this being out and out terrible, I feel everyone owes Lucas an apology.

I think it's time you simply retire from watching Star Wars Movies. The general population found VII a good film. Hell, but Prequel standards, it was pretty stellar, if you ask me. Great? Nah. Fantastic? Nah. But it's good.
As for Rogue One? It felt like fucking STAR WARS again. And if that isn't the vibe you got, I highly suggest you simply jump off the wagon at this point, because this is the direction Disney is taking it, and if you ask me, and, apparently the general population; we like it.

Lucas doesn't deserve an apology. He directed ONE good film, and made a helluva great universe. And for that, I thank him. As for the other three films he made, he fucked up. Bad.

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