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Damn - I've going to have to avoid this thread for the next few days until I see it. Even vague comments give away too much. I don't even like to get a consensus thumbs up or thumbs down, lest it influence my own perception.
http://thecinemasnob.com/2012/07/20/mid … rises.aspx
The Dark Knight Rises is the Heaven's Gate of superhero movies?! Now I want to see it!
I do not understand the hate for this movie at all. It paid off all the build from the previous two installments and delivered the best third act I've ever seen in any movie. Seriously, the last 45 minutes of this movie are absolutely fucking incredible.
I don't hate it, I just didn't love it as I had the previous two.
looooved it! Going again tonight this was a perfect storm for me, comic booky pulpy yet as serious as a heart attack for its concepts.
I enjoyed some of the comments from the Shortpacked! web comic page 
"Nolan’s Batman actually isn’t good at much."
"Everyone else in Nolan’s trilogy is better at being Batman than Batman is. The Joker always had an escape plan. Bane plans everything far in advance and is always a step ahead. Catwoman can get out of any trap. Random detective guy can figure out who all of the masked people are with some solid research and planning. Fox can develop new toys in his spare time without any immediate need for them. Even Gordon showed the ability to escape from a life-threatening situation.
Nolan’s Batman, on the other hand, failed at almost all of these. By DKR he’s just relying on beating people up because he’s better than them. He’s arrogant and overconfident and constantly screws up because he doesn’t have a plan B if punching someone doesn’t work.
I enjoyed the movies as character studies and interesting psychological thrillers, but in the end they weren’t really Batman movies."
Ya, while I think the movie has problems on a detail level (it's apparent to me that this was a 3+ hour movie that Nolan had to painfully cut 20 minutes out of to fit the maximum IMAX runtime), I think it completely succeeds on all the important, overarching character and thematic payoffs, to where as a whole I love the damned thing.
I think the people that came out disappointed wanted to see Dark Knight 2, and were sad that this movie trends way more comic-booky than that. The thing is, he already made Dark Knight, the Heat remake with Batman in it, you can't just redo that same formula. The logical thing is to up the stakes and do a big blow-out finish for the final conclusion,and I have no problem with that.
Ironically enough, the plot elements in this movie bug me less than they did in the Dark Knight, because that movie was staying so grounded all the way through that things like big Explosive Barrels on the Ferries looked silly and out of place. This final movie feels more comic-booky to me from the get-go, and so the more outlandish elements gel for me and I don't question them.
I also think that structurally this final installment just feels more satisfying on the whole, because they save the big blow-out action sequences for the ending, instead of the middle (as in Dark Knight). You get all this awesome build-up and one of my favorite movie tropes, the training montage, and then what feels like a 40 minute-long continuous action packed climax.
I do still wish we could get an extended cut to iron out the issues that are there and make it perfect, but for me this is easily one of the best trilogies ever at this point, and this last installment shits all over Return of the Jedi as far as I'm concerned.
Absolutely loved this, thought it was better than the previous two movies by a country mile. I never much liked Batman Begins' third act, and the Dark Knight was a little too long and overindulgent.
I can't remember the last time the stakes in a third act were so high, and being so on the edge of my seat for every minute of it.
Sure, you can pick holes in it. Go looking for flaws and you'll find them. What film can stand up to that?
Sure, you can pick holes in it. Go looking for flaws and you'll find them. What film can stand up to that?
The problem is you don't have to look for the flaws because they're right there, in your face, all the time, screaming at you.
Care to cite an example of this persistent, screaming and in your face flaw?
I was going to deconstruct the movie and basically spell out all the stuff that doesn't work for me for one reason or another but somehow it turned into this thing. Sorry in advance.
Also, SPOILERS. (if you still care)
Care to cite an example of this persistent, screaming and in your face flaw?
Ok, I may have went a bit overboard there because it isn't one specific thing that throws you out of the movie. It's all the smaller things combined that just make everything "fall apart". It took me a while to figure out why I didn't come out of the theater all pumped up and wanting to slap a bat on my chest and hunt down criminals from skyscrapers. (there are no scyscrapers in my city but that's beside the point 
)
My two biggest complaints are the execution of the 8 year long gap and a step back in realism. Because they had to cram 8 years worth of backstory into this movie everything feels rushed and undeveloped. The first scene we see Bruce Wayne: he looks bad, he has a limp for some reason (he didn't get injured because he sits at home all day, but he's still built like a tank so he gets plenty of excercise, indoor polo accident maybe?), he lets selina steal his mother's pearls (which should not happen but that's nitpicking) and then boom, he's back in the batcave. "I haven't seen you down here for a long time" Alfred says. Which is great, but I just saw TDK and for me he was in the cave an hour ago. I don't really feel like we're 8 years later. Then a bit later he just slaps a magic knee brace on his leg and he's good to go. Just dust off the ol' cape and cowl and off we go. The whole movie feels to me like a missed opportunity. Why not show the 8 years that have passed?
James Gordon Jr.: Why's he running, Dad?
Lt. James Gordon: Because we have to chase him.
I want to see THAT movie. Build the first act around it. Show Batman cracking down on criminals while being chased by the police. You can have this whole thing where Gordon helps him and misdirects the police force to give Batman the edge while trying not to get caught himself. You can introduce Selina at this point. Give her a little arc. Show how the system fucks her over so she has to resort to stealing while the rich go free. She gets caught, goes on probation, she can't get a straight job so she steals again. This time from the rich. Also she takes a cue from Batman and invents Catwoman to CONCEAL her identity because she can't get caught again. (She doesn't dress up just to look hot and she doesn't wear 15cm platform heels like and idiot). Then when the tables are turned, the rich are getting executed on the streets and she realizes that this isn't what she wanted after all it'll have more impact.
While we're at it we can introduce Blake aswell.
Then show the passage of time. Bruce getting older, slower, he gets banged up more and more. It takes a toll on his body. The city gets better due to the Dent act. People debate whether anyone even needs Batman anymore. Alfred tells him to stop but he keeps going out there every night, saying that there's nothing else left for him. Rachel is gone, Batman, his mission, is all that he has left.
Then Bane shows up and starts fucking shit up. Batman tries to go head to head with him and fails. He gets seriously messed up, because he can't win in a fistfight. Things take a turn for worse and Batman is out of the picture. He has to pick himself up and rise to the challenge. Then when he meets Bane again, he outsmarts him in order to win.
That's the general idea of what I would've liked to see in the theater.
You don't need Talia. You don't need the Wayne Enterprises takeover. You don't need the scientist and the fancy reactor. Have Bane steal a nuke from somewhere and you're set. Now you have 40mins extra time to fill with important stuff.
Last edited by Lamer (2012-08-13 00:49:43)
I didn't read this thread, but did anyone else go "HUH?!" when Batman leveled the batwing in front of the truck and machine gunned the SHIT out of the driver? Didn't they have a funny quip about the no-gun rule like 30 seconds earlier?
- Branco
Haven't seemed the movie, but that might be a botched reference to The Dark Knight Returns. Near the end, Batman brings out a tank and begins blasting the army of punks.
"Rubber bullets. Honest."
"Rubber bullets. Honest."
That was the joke in Dark Knight Returns. Lots of people probably died, but hey, it wasn't intensional on his part!
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