Re: Rise of Skywalker [HERE THERE BE SPOILERS]

Got dragged to see this a second time by family, and one little detail upset me so much that I ended up writing a longish thing about it. So, breaking my word from above and posting it here.

Remember how in The Last Jedi, when brother and sister are finally reunited, Luke and Leia's theme plays and it's beautiful and touching and meaningful? In The Rise of Skywalker it plays over Lando talking to Jannah, a character he's never met before, because they needed something to fill the space.

This little moment--the movie doing all it can to induce meaning through the brute force of nostalgia without context--is repeated again and again throughout the film's runtime. In The Last Jedi, Kylo smashing his mask symbolizes his rejection of his legacy as a crutch; when he reconstructs the mask in The Rise of Skywalker, it's because JJ Abrams liked the prop. In The Force Awakens, the wreckage of Star Destroyers symbolizes the failures of postwar liberalism to dispel the ghosts of fascism, and the Skywalker saber the burden of the past that the younger generation must carry; in The Rise of Skywalker, the wreckage of the Death Star is a pit stop on an unending series of fetch quests and the Skywalker saber is reassembled for the trailer shots. In The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, Han and Luke's deaths are sacrifices to reach humanity in those who have none, to save friends and family, to spark hope in the galaxy; in The Rise of Skywalker, Leia dies because the real-life circumstances of the shoot required it.

This is a movie composed entirely of gesture and reference and shades of iconography without any deeper sense of what these building blocks mean or why they matter. It's a desperate plea for these things to be loved because you loved them once upon a time, not because of what they represent or what resonance new context could give them. And even that kind of feeble parody is beyond its grasp--the imagery is slathered so thick it becones ridiculous and ugly, the score strains to thrill but is only a tired ghost of what it was, the plotlines that reach into the past take all the things about this trilogy that were genuinely new and vital and stamp them into the ground. Its appeal to past joys is so overwhelming that it kills anything that made us love these new characters--there is no interiority here, no inner lives or motivations, just puppets hurtling from beat to beat to serve a pyramid of retcons and reversals because "it's what the fans want."

"You may find," says a certain alien in a certain other space franchise, "that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting." And after all their entitled, witless, screaming wanting, this--this clumsy, cowardly, shambling reanimated corpse--is all the fans will have.

Re: Rise of Skywalker [HERE THERE BE SPOILERS]

Except also there is a universe-killing fleet crewed by the kidnapped children of the whole galaxy???!!

EDIT: ABBIE I WANT TO TAKE YOUR HAND.

But I can’t. At least not yet. I want to hate this so bad I just can’t trust my own reactions, [insufficient punctuation)

Regardless of the objective quality of the film, I’m weirdly enjoying the drama, try to reach back in time to clench fists with those fans in 83 who were nearly completely abandoned for 15 years.  We represent what’s left of THEM.

EDIT2: The New Trilogy purposefully misunderstands War so badly...

Last edited by Beeg (2019-12-24 09:43:07)

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Re: Rise of Skywalker [HERE THERE BE SPOILERS]

Did Ryan work on this one? Rey totally stole Dorkmans gold saber from RvD

The difficult second album Regan

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Re: Rise of Skywalker [HERE THERE BE SPOILERS]

So a friend and I just realized this about the ending and I yearn for death.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EMsJB7XXUAE_aPQ?format=png&name=900x900

We derailed literally the entire trilogy to turn it into a battle with the old fascists, only to forget that the entirety of the new fascist empire still rules the galaxy and nothing about that situation has changed from the end of TLJ. Great. Fuckin' perfect. Way to wrap it up

Re: Rise of Skywalker [HERE THERE BE SPOILERS]

Holy...shit...you're not at all wrong. It's like when Batman jumps out of the window to catch Rachel and lands on the car -- THE JOKER IS STILL UP THERE, WTF HAPPENED? DID HE AND HIS GOONS JUST LEAVE?

Dude wow that's really bad.

Re: Rise of Skywalker [HERE THERE BE SPOILERS]

....Daaamn.

Boter, formerly of TF.N as Boter and DarthArjuna. I like making movies and playing games, in one order or another.

Re: Rise of Skywalker [HERE THERE BE SPOILERS]

Don't worry I'm sure the new good guy fleet will be powerful enough to take out the First Order's fleet

...oh wait, the First Order destroyers *don't* have 'one weird weakness' that enables a single fighter to take out the whole ship with a few BLASTER SHOTS. (seriously, Palps??)

I mean, they probably don't.

Last edited by Writhyn (2019-12-27 17:41:09)

Witness me!

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Re: Rise of Skywalker [HERE THERE BE SPOILERS]

https://twitter.com/ZenOfDesign/status/ … 51328?s=19

This thread

Witness me!

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Re: Rise of Skywalker [HERE THERE BE SPOILERS]

I didn't hate "Rise Of Skywalker" as a movie it began, middle and ended better than some of the prequels. You will note that I say some of the prequels which is already pretty damning. (Sorry Owen) I should mention that I have only seen the film the once and with the previous few films my opinion shifted after a second watch.

When the sequels were announced my biggest concern was that the significance to Vader's sacrifice in return of the Jedi would be diminished. By having the Emperor return it rather is, however I must admit to being quite positive to the reveal in the trailer that he would be back as Ian McDiarmid is just fun to watch on screen. He is by far the biggest highlight of “Revenge of the Sith”. Which makes it such a shame that Rise Of Skywalker made such little use of him. Frankly his character could have been any Tom, Dick or Exar Kun.

I never had a problem with the characterisations of “The Last Jedi” and it is a crying shame to see some of the most interesting choices made in Star Wars in recent years completely walked back. The supposed it revelations made about Rey raise more questions than they answer and whilst the decision to make her a descendant of the Emperor works better than her being the daughter of either Han or Luke it still does not make for as interesting a story than if the force can simply come to anyone.

A lot has been said about the supposedly fan service in the film, what I think people mean is a service to people who aren't fans and complained bitterly that they didn't like what had been done and surrendering an interesting narrative for the sake of a vocal minority completely leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

So what did I like about it?

That little dude who reprogram C3P0 was pretty cool, I like that C3 PO had some decent screen time this time around after he and R2 were underused in the previous two instalments, I miss the idea from the OT that they were the narrators. Bringing Lando back to just stand around seemed like a cynical attempt at pleasing the crowd, but I can't help it it was pleasing.

It didn't make the decisions that I would have, and whilst some of those detract from previous instalments overall it was a fun movie even though it didn't reach its potential and whilst it will not be my first choice to revisit I also won't be entirely striking from the record.

Extended Edition - 146 - The Rise Of Skywalker
VFX Reel | Twitter | IMDB | Blog

Re: Rise of Skywalker [HERE THERE BE SPOILERS]

Abbie wrote:

This is a movie composed entirely of gesture and reference and shades of iconography without any deeper sense of what these building blocks mean or why they matter. It's a desperate plea for these things to be loved because you loved them once upon a time, not because of what they represent or what resonance new context could give them. And even that kind of feeble parody is beyond its grasp--the imagery is slathered so thick it becones ridiculous and ugly, the score strains to thrill but is only a tired ghost of what it was, the plotlines that reach into the past take all the things about this trilogy that were genuinely new and vital and stamp them into the ground. Its appeal to past joys is so overwhelming that it kills anything that made us love these new characters--there is no interiority here, no inner lives or motivations, just puppets hurtling from beat to beat to serve a pyramid of retcons and reversals because "it's what the fans want."

"You may find," says a certain alien in a certain other space franchise, "that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting." And after all their entitled, witless, screaming wanting, this--this clumsy, cowardly, shambling reanimated corpse--is all the fans will have.

Not too far from what I would say about for instance, Return of the Jedi, which takes elements from ANH and re-hashes them.

Also very opposite of TLJ, which I assume you also didn't enjoy. I assume this based on generalization, as most "film-people" tend to not like it, not because it's you.


I enjoyed TROS. Was it the best film ever? Of course not. It made me somehow like TLJ even more, as it took some of the story started in it, and didn't completely tr to ignore, like some people would have me believe. Yes, the fact that Kylo rebuilds his mask seems like it's JJ just liking the prop, but also Luke was "redeemed" towards the end of TLJ, and I think it was respectfully handled in this one as well.

There was a ton of fan service. And guess what? I'm a fan. I feel serviced.

Re: Rise of Skywalker [HERE THERE BE SPOILERS]

Re: assumptions, nope! Love TLJ (and I'm curious why you think most "film people" don't enjoy it, as most people I know who meet that description adore it).

Re: Rise of Skywalker [HERE THERE BE SPOILERS]

most "film buffs" I talk to tend to take the piss out of it, and I just don't see why. I found it freakin' stellar. So much fan service in there that fans "didn't know they wanted". My best friend hates TLJ, and thinks TROS was an apology for it, but that guy also likes Transformers, so he's a lost cause really.

The thing about TLJ is that is split the fanbase almost right down the middle. It's almost a perfect 50/50 for the love/hate relationship about it. I get the hate, but at the same time, what the fuck did you want, really? You want ANH/ESB/ROTJ again? Just go watch those.

Although, it should be mentioned that said best friend thinks that ROTS is the best in the series, so his opinion is pretty much invalid.

Disclaimer: I like ROTS just fine. It's arguably the strongest of its trilogy. But I have a weak spot for TPM( I watched it in the theaters at 13, and I still like it), so it's hard to admit ROTS being better.
AOTC is pretty bad though.

But at the end of the day, I guess I just appreciate all of them. For what they are. "kids" movies. TLJ was trying damn hard NOT to be that, and I think it succeeded, but some of my friends just wants that infamou "Star Wars" back, and are not able to comprehend that the series didn't grow with us, they were made for 3 different generations, and I think they all managed to do that just fine.

I find TROS to be a good ending to the saga. Sure, it could've been better, but it could've been so, so much worse. At the end of a 42 year run, you want to close it as safe as possible, trying to please the new and old fans, and I think JJ did a damn good job out of it. There are so many options he could've used, so many plot lines, so many chances, but in the end, he did what he did with TFA; played it safe, with a few twists. He did good. He didn't do excellent, but he did good.

Re: Rise of Skywalker [HERE THERE BE SPOILERS]

Obviously JJ knew she was Palpatine's heir from TFA forward; Did Ryan know?

The purpose of that rhetorical is to proceed to this one: Do we still think the three sequels were bumbling along (as we the internet echo chamber did while discussing leadership & casting announcements), or was this the plot outline Kathleen Kennedy, et al, were pitched at the outset?

Put me down as of the opinion that the latter is the case. We can quibble about the execution, but the plot backbone has been there. Now I'm off to google what the "ring theory" guy has to say.

(UTC-06:00) Central Time (US & Canada)

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Re: Rise of Skywalker [HERE THERE BE SPOILERS]

Freddie Prince Jr posted a video on FB today-ish, that summarizes my view of the new trilogy fairly on point, Apart from Gray Jedi, but hell, the man has a few points..

Re: Rise of Skywalker [HERE THERE BE SPOILERS]

So, Anakin’s “This weapon is your life” lightsaber:
Is ignited for the first time in Padme’s bedroom in the beginning of AOTC, then falls into Obiwan’s speeder, then back with Anakin til the end of RotS when Obiwan picks it up and puts it in a trunk for 20ish years, then gives it to Luke in the beginning of ANH, who loses it with his hand in TESB. EDIT5: Briefly picked up by Han to cut open a Tauntaun. Somehow Maz gets ahold of it and has it in her basement when Rey arrives in TFA. Finn wields it briefly vs Kylo, but loses it like Luke, but it’s immediately picked back up by Rey. EDIT4:Rey takes it to Luke who tries to throw it in the ocean and misses, then Rey takes the saber with her to Snoke’s ship in her escape pod and it gets exploded in half after Snoke’s demise when she and Kylo get in a force tug of war over it.  Then, in the next scene Astrally Projecting Luke Skywalker is wielding it, whole, against Kylo Ren. And then again after they’ve escaped, Rey has the broken halves of it together with the secret Jedi texts. Then in this new movie, the saber is whole again, Rey tries to throw it in the ocean but Ghost Luke catches it and gives it back. Then it is teleported to Ben, who brings it back to Rey, who uses it to kill Palpatine EDIT2:, and then buries it in the desert.

Have I got that straight?

Also, was that door to Palpatine’s secret dark side closet there the whole time?

Also, did the ancient Sith daggersmith see a vision or use a time machine or something to make an ancient dagger that lined up with a modern ruin?

Also, why are the knights of Ren rolling coal so hard?

EDIT: Much more enjoyable the second time around when reactions weren’t getting in the way
Also: Are there different cuts floating around? Saw Real3D tonight, and IMAX last week, and this one felt different in a couple of subtle “close the blast door” kinda ways, but I’ve only seen the 2, without a pause or rewind button, so I’m not sure at all.
EDIT3: Was Ochi dead in a cave looking for a dagger that he’d just used to stab Rey’s parent’s?

Last edited by Beeg (2020-01-02 08:09:55)

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Re: Rise of Skywalker [HERE THERE BE SPOILERS]

Maybe third time's the charm...

...It wasn't. I walked out two thirds into it. Actually that was always my intention. I hopped in while waiting for The Gentleman showing to start but I still don't care for it. It's just a bit dumb and that makes me sad. The Gentlemen was all right and I really wasn't looking forward to sitting thru a Guy Richie movie. They are all a bit style over substance but I had a good time with it. Definitely the best movie I've seen this year...okay that's not saying much since I've only seen two thirds of Episode 9 and that movie.

The difficult second album Regan

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Re: Rise of Skywalker [HERE THERE BE SPOILERS]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXbQ7feWsAUnxQV?format=png&name=small

(What? Me, bitter?)

Re: Rise of Skywalker [HERE THERE BE SPOILERS]

I was wondering what this movie would look like if it wasn't so goddamn cyan, so I dragged a few screencaps into Photoshop and dropped that slider right down.

Spoiler'd for size

SPOILER Show

BEFORE

https://imgur.com/Io7Ps6t.jpg

AFTER

https://imgur.com/5lDRKNP.jpg

BEFORE

https://imgur.com/hYMjPtj.jpg

AFTER

https://imgur.com/9JtwkEU.jpg

BEFORE

https://imgur.com/TvjG4QF.jpg

AFTER

https://imgur.com/6cy6h4q.jpg

BEFORE

https://imgur.com/Do6qee4.jpg

AFTER

https://imgur.com/aiD1zcP.jpg

BEFORE

https://imgur.com/at1QSN5.jpg

AFTER

https://imgur.com/TLGsv6C.jpg

BEFORE

https://imgur.com/bdQUzhR.jpg

AFTER

https://imgur.com/kFB18Z4.jpg

BEFORE

https://imgur.com/9exey7B.jpg

AFTER

https://imgur.com/aCwyuqO.jpg

BEFORE

https://imgur.com/dIh6OlG.jpg

AFTER

https://imgur.com/EFfCM7a.jpg

BEFORE

https://imgur.com/OWtTmBO.jpg

AFTER

https://imgur.com/cbuqgIY.jpg

BEFORE

https://imgur.com/2dYnHQA.jpg

AFTER

https://imgur.com/5EDRxBw.jpg

BEFORE

https://imgur.com/2bQRpAF.jpg

AFTER

https://imgur.com/w93xNMZ.jpg

I did a little bit of extra work for a couple of the shots, but for the most part, it was literally just dragging down the cyan slider in Selective Color. I don't even mind the overtly cyan look in some places, but it's used so much that it the effect just becomes diluted.

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Re: Rise of Skywalker [HERE THERE BE SPOILERS]

Holy crap dude, you made TROS look like a Star Wars movie. O_O

(<Still hasn't bothered actually watching the thing, but holy fuck that is some ugly af grading)

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: Rise of Skywalker [HERE THERE BE SPOILERS]

I recall thinking the movie was kinda blue, but I didn't realize just how bad it was. Holy shit.

"ShadowDuelist is a god."
        -Teague Chrystie

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Re: Rise of Skywalker [HERE THERE BE SPOILERS]

Adding xtra user karma.

(UTC-06:00) Central Time (US & Canada)

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