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2013-02-26 17:05:39

Watched this again, and among the shots that were discussed as not being obviously meningful, I found this, which I never connected to the theme of the movie either:

2013-02-24 22:50:41

Yeah, that scene was great. Great contribution, was a long time since I saw WOTW and forgot this existed. smile

2013-02-24 16:31:39

I remembered this, it's a longer sequence from Final Destination 2. I just love how everything here is shot and edited, and the absence of music through most of it I really like. The sound design and mixing is superb, and overally this is really great filmmaking. Complete lack of realism and general quality of the movie aside. smile
Also note the complete lack of shit color grading and a sky that looks blue. Can't believe that is worth pointing out nowadays.

EDIT: As it turns out, director David R. Ellis passed away early this year. Bummer, most of his stuff that I've seen I liked atleast from a gilty-pleasure entertainment point of view.

2013-02-22 23:44:55

For anyone who might care, RLM has a half in the bag for AGDTDH:

http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-b … -die-hard/

2013-02-22 12:54:53

Ewing wrote:

TechNoir wrote:
For those of you who remember the car chase in the beginning of Quantum Of Solace, if you like me just cannot stand that, it's more of the same here.
Count me out. That car chase made me physically angry. Looks like I dodged a bullet when I showed up late to a showing last Friday.

As fate would have it, you weren't late. You were...... right on time...

2013-02-20 19:39:39

This made me think "The Onion" several times. Sharing this one, thanks for posting it. smile

2013-02-19 23:51:26

fcw wrote:

When I see Doug Liman's original Bourne Identity, it's so much more coherent visually than Greengrass's wobbly chop-suey sequels.
The action scenes in Quantum of Solace are just a depressing ruin, particularly given the amount of effort everyone must have put in to make exciting things happen in front of the cameras, only to have confusing things happen in front of the audience.
I'm so pleased that there are still directors who know how to shoot action with long, steady shots, such as Brad Bird in MI: Ghost Protocol, and that know how to maintain coherence as they cut between moving camera shots, such as JJ Abrams in Star Trek.
I'll tell you what really annoys me: frivolous twitchiness of the camera when the scene is just talking heads. I've seen a reporter doing a piece to camera in a news item, and the shot is full of changes of framing, short snap zooms and faffing with focus. "Sod off and create music videos on your own time!" I want to yell at the camera operator.

I completely agree with you even down to your examples. Bourne Identity has some wonderfully shot fights, handheld yet restrained, with the aim of allowing you to know what the hell is going on. I would even want to showcase the moment in the apartment fight with the guy who comes through the window, where Bourne disarms him of his knife, kicks him, and the camera topples over in a POV shot as he goes over a desk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFnmq5PPScA

Notice that the fight is very tightly shot with quite hard zoom, yet it works because it is steady and the editing pace is reserved. I personally would want the cameraman to take one step back, or see it 16:9 to get more space.

Likewise for Quantum and Ghost Protocol, great examples of wrong and right respectively.

2013-02-19 23:27:02

Aliens was really poor to begin with I believe, whatever transfer they had was in quite bad shape. I would guess that the example with Ripley in the hive was intended to be cold blue in light. It looks practical. Some other example shots I've seen were a huge improvement over older versions. However comparing Newt before/after, my god the new grade looks shitty. Her hair looks like she has been in a chlorine swimming pool for a month. That definitely does not seem like restoration to me. The before picture looks neutral, the new grade looks, just bleh. Would I have given it thought if I hadn't seen the comparison? Probably not.

The Star Wars examples are horrible aswell. "I love film because it has such wonderful dynamic range and smoothness. Let's get a great DP to shoot it so the exposure and balance is just right. Also, can you completely negate all that by dropping shadow detail into an abyss of 0, 0, 0? Lovely."

2013-02-18 21:49:01

"Remember, all I'm offering is the truth, nothing more".

*Swallows pill*

"'The truth' of course being the nickname for my junk".

2013-02-18 21:33:17

Now I will never be able to not think about this whenever I see a poster for a kids movie. It will be interesting to see how many will follow the trend.

2013-02-17 13:50:30

redxavier wrote:

Ridley Scott mentions on the commentary for Gladiator that they took out frames during the opening battle to make it more visceral, some of the sword swings etc. are harder as a result, and it works quite well I think. But then they ruin it a few minutes later by doing that smearing rubbish.
I watched Blade last night and was surprised at well it held up - firstly, it has none of that grading crap we're forced to watch these days, and the action was fast paced but clear. The opening club scene is probably one of the best introductions for a character ever.

The smearing in the opening battle of Gladiator was due to low light necessitating lower frame rate for a longer shutter speed to get enough light. I think they mention it was not intended but necessary. I think it works since it is a good excuse to let the music take over and having the visuals almost be like an exhausted, blood-drunk dream.

As you mention, the main thing I love about slightly older films, pre-2000 I guess, is they look like real life alot of the time. I've been watching the Dirty Harry-films recently, and San Fransisco actually looks like a real place, as opposed to the color pallette used in current films.

They did a number on the Top Gun re-release by the way. Teal and Orange all the way. Mid-day shots look like sunsets, skies are not sky-blue, but aqua-greenish from the teal-orange coloring. I really love the clarity of the remastered shots, and the contrast, renewed brightness etc is great, but they just had to mess with it beyond a neutral re-master.

2013-02-17 12:06:39

avatar wrote:

I first noticed it in Gladiator - all the Colosseum fights were cut 'impressionistically' so you couldn't really tell what was happening. Just a blur.
Given me smooth action like The Matrix or long takes like Children of Men any day.

To be honest I never thought about it in Gladiator. The style works for me, I don't recall having problems with what was happening where. Though I seem to recall generous use of short shutter times which at times I really think leads to staccato strobing instead of smooth motion, which can interfere with how I perceive the images and hurts the intake of information.

2013-02-16 22:01:14

and if you are like me and avoid pre-screening exposure to movies, let me just strongly dissuade anyone from going to see this at the cinema, and making the mistake I made.
It is a lazy, soulless thing with a very poor script, of which 40% is nothing but quick quips back and forth that ultimately have no meaning whatsoever. The cinematography is pretty nice, but the camers operation is constantly jittering to the point where I would gladly have paid for a f*cking tripod with my own money if it had given me one steady shot. Editing pace is not Bourne 2/3 bad, but almost. Lenses used are also like Bourne almost only long tight shots (again, unstabilized) so the action scenes are completely unintelligible, which is exacerbated by the movie cutting between shots in ways where they do not even try to establish geography or situational awareness. They cut from inside car A to outside car B to again inside car A, which makes you think the 2nd shot was outside car A rather than car B. I guarantee if you even try to make sense of it your brain will just automatically zone out for a few seconds. For those of you who remember the car chase in the beginning of Quantum Of Solace, if you like me just cannot stand that, it's more of the same here.

Another weird thing was framing for many scenes was way off, and not entire reels, just some shots. The film was shot Super35, and matted to 2:35 in post. In 2-person shots where 2 people are standing facing the camera, the lower end of the screen cuts them off just by their hips, and the eyes of the 2 people are JUST under the top of the frame. For many closeups, it looks like the camera is trying to impress upon you that the mouth or nose of the person is the important part, because the eyes keep drifting up and almost out of the frame. The cinema I saw it in also does digital and 3D-projections, so it had to have been a digital screening, thus the projectionist could not have matted it too low. Also some scenes had an important item just at the bottom edge of the frame, which obviously would have been much higher if the projector was showing information too low in the frame.

At this point I almost put AGDTDH next to Taken 2 as some of the worst moviemaking I've seen recently. I wish I had seen the Rotten Tomatoes score beforehand.

If you've sen the film, please share your opinion, I'd love to hear some contrasting views.

EDIT: IMDB stated movie is indeed shot with intended 1.85 aspect ratio. What my cinema was doing I do not know...

2013-02-15 12:12:23

Lamer wrote:

Dorkman wrote:
Both are awful because both tend to be unmotivated and just there because the filmmaker doesn't know what else to do.
and/or the actors can't sell what they're doing. Which is why this:
will always be better than this:

Pull the damn camera back. I want to see a cool fight scene not get epilepsy.
(BTW if you haven't seen SPL you're missing out)

That Bourne Ultimatum scene is the definition of claustrophobia. I almost get paniced watching it because I feel like I am in a small box at all times. And that scene could probably work if they used wide lenses, because you would have alot more geography visible to orient yourself. Still the cutting pace is just ridiculous. When it is so hard to follow on a 20 inch display, I cannot see anyone in a movie theater having a chance to catch anything.

2013-02-15 12:03:04

I can sometimes like it almost by default since it does stir things up a bit. However when I find myself loving the first half and then the movie suddenly becomes something else, I feel disappointed that I won't get more of the same.

2013-02-14 23:55:34

redxavier wrote:

TechNoir wrote:
In recent years there have been a fair few instances, in my subjective opinion, of big-budget movies that have been almost visually unintelligible at times.
Transformers! Transformers 2! And Transformers 3!
Shaky cam's ok if used appropriately, like a scene that takes place during an earthquake. Fast editing/quick cuts can get tiresome if the scene isn't at its core exciting (which is unfortunately when it's most used). However, I can't be entirely against it, as fast editing did essentially save Star Wars. Sure, it's not fast now but back then...

As a short tangent, I've heard this quote before, how Star Wars was saved in editing. Would anyone have any info about what specifically this means? Google is being a bit unhelpful with those search terms.

2013-02-14 21:20:18

I need to watch Empire Of The Sun it seems. smile

To add another example of camerawork, combined with editing and visual effects.
A probably little known film called Death Machine (by Blade-director Stephen Norrington, 1995).

One of the best chase sequences ever made in my opinion:

http://youtu.be/nNRwoRiHxDU?t=33m32s

It is about a 7-8 minute sequence from the timecode above. Watch the entire thing, and tell me you don't get atleast some panic by the filming, sound design and editing. Brad Dourif is just a bonus.

2013-02-14 21:13:52

I just watched The Rock today. The car chase sequence almost only uses zoom lenses it seems. It is extremely annoying to fel so confined by the frame. Also I am currently watching The Bourne Supremacy, and almost 80% of shots so far uses +70mm focal lenghts it feels like. You know something is wrong when the original widescreen image feels like it is panned & scanned to a 4:3 image, and then re-cropped to 2:35.

2013-02-14 20:58:44

In recent years there have been a fair few instances, in my subjective opinion, of big-budget movies that have been almost visually unintelligible at times. The examples I can think of are the Bourne sequels, Quantum Of Solace, and Taken 2.

The 2 main causes of this to me is a combination of fast editing, and long lenses/shaky camerawork. Either of these things will generally work fine, fast cutting can be great if you have enough air in the footage to allow a better overview of what is happening. Likewise, shakycam can work well if we are allowed time to process each cut enough, since long lenses and shaky operating both reduce the amount of useful information we are given.

So, which aspect do you prefer, or dislike more? Personally I always hate fast cutting way more than anything else, when it is done wrong. It more than anything else often feels used to hide poor stuntwork or other things they couldn't be bothered to do well, or to infuse a sense of tension which does not exist natively in the situations or characters.

2013-02-13 14:28:10

I've got a big love for alot of different metal genres, so here are my personal picks, with samples for each.

1. Insomnium - Above The Weeping World (Melodic Death Metal, Finland)

Drawn To Black: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QThgIY5Vqdo
The Killjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYf3wP3l28k

In my opinion the best metal album ever made. The music is energetically melancholic and the lyrics are all poems, some even use, or are influenced by poets or poetry. All songs are masterpieces.

2. Fredrik Thordendal's Special Defects - Sol Niger Within (Experimental Metal, Sweden)

Full Album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RaDa-S_Qf4

This album is absolutely insane, and the musicianship is prodigious. Polyrhythms, polymetrics, insane guitar solos, screaming, lovecraftian lyrics about the end of the universe and existence. One long album with no pauses.

Here is the drummer Morgan Ågren doing a medley from the album:

http://youtu.be/M1hmMBmnmLw?t=17m40s

3. Sybreed - Antares (Industrial Metal, Switzerland)

Emma 0: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzEyvg2rqf0
Dynamic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWq05c8Q7xU

Unique metal with wonderful melodies that never sounds ordinary, yet still have some obvious beauty to them. Also the production and sound/mixing are exquisite.

4. Decapitated - Organic Hallucinosis (Death Metal, Poland)

A Poem About An Old Prison Man: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDFWD78Mesw

This album is as close as you'd come to something that can do actual physical harm. The guitars sound like buzzsaws and the drumming sounds like machine gun fire. The songs range from melt-your-face, to groovy.

5. Illidiance - Damage Theory (Cyber Metal, Russia)

I Want To Believe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_IqhwOiLZk
Cybergore Generation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Fxr3d9VAJE

This album is just catchy as hell, and it has a very distinct sound.

2013-02-05 14:23:32

fireproof78 wrote:

I had to take a quick double read of the OP to make sure I posted the right thing.
Personally, one of my favorite pieces of camera work is in "Pride and Prejudice" with Keira Knightly. There is a scene in there where Knightly and Matthew MacFayden are dancing in a crowded hall. During the shot there is a part of it where the two of them are all alone. The shot continues on with the two then back to the crowd. It always stood out to me as a very interesting and beautiful piece of work.

Excellent example. smile

redxavier wrote:

Zarban wrote:
I love beautiful cinematography, but I don't give shit number 1 about "one-ers". Cut, don't cut, I don't care. Shut up and tell the story.
I'm rarely impressed with these as well, except in Rope (which is essentially a filmed play) or a scene which is deliberately building tension by not cutting away, or is a chase scene (like in Children of Men). I was a bit bored by both of the Cuban examples posted. The problem I have with the long steadycam shots is that after a while I become aware that we've not cut away, thus I become aware of the camera. Atonement is a great example, it's a long expansive shot with huge scope and complexity, with all sorts of subjects and backgrounds in the frame over its duration; however, since I'm wondering in amazement 'they've still not cut yet' and am waiting for it, I'm not really into the story at that point. Sometimes, the more technical and outstanding feats of camerawork just give the game away.
The best cinematography, I'd argue, is that which doesn't draw attention to itself but still successfully evokes all the emotions and feelings you'd want with that story.
On another note, I cannot wait until this teal grading shit goes away. [Old Man Voice]It's ruining my movies![/Old Man Voice]

I can enjoy teal and orange if it is largely practical lighting to create that look. The worst atrocities are the ones where they've gone so overboard that the sky is almost puke-green. It literally makes me slightly nauseous, I don't know what it is but it repulses me.

2013-02-05 06:24:28

paulou wrote:

Praise be to Zarban. Oh and,

I think we found Russias Sam Neill!

2013-02-04 15:45:50

Great examples so far, I'm loving it. Keep in mind, no need to write alot. Just something, and with specific video examples if readily available.

I am completely ignorant of Kurosawa and many other older directors and DPs. This is a great way to find specific examples. I've held up watching Mr Nobody for a loong time, but now I'm gonna watch it ASAP.

2013-02-04 11:40:13

Another example of, in my opinion, exceptional camerawork, aswell as oscarworthy sounddesign.

Fast Five:

Part 1. http://youtu.be/MlD5NBnzFhE?t=6s

Part 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw918tbFCO8

These low-quality clips does not do it justice, this is about 50% of a 10-minute sequence with 2 cars towing a vault through a city. For my money this is the best pure-action sequence ever put to film. Before I would probably have put T2 in that spot, but this is just orgasmic on every level. If you like action you OWE it to yourself to watch this on a good display with the volume HIGH (again, the sound design and editing is immaculate and contains so much energy and detail).

EDIT: changed link 2 to a higher quality version.

2013-02-04 11:20:25

Well, my clips from the OP are all timecodes to the full movie on youtube, which I presume is not uploaded by the movie company. In other cases it will probably just be short clips on youtube.

I don't know. Most movies on youtube that are still there are in lower quality, generally 480p. The fact that they often have been up for months or years seem to indicate there is no panic to bring them down from the studio side.

To me, linking to movies existing on Youtube is a good way to "show off" good aspects of the movie, and the low quality will probably not make anyone download it from youtube as their "storage" copy atleast. The point is to highlight good filmmaking, and not using visual examples, when available, sort of defeats the purpose.

To be also a constructive post, here is another example from me, one of the best chase sequences I've ever seen, hands down.

The movie is "Death Machine", lowbudget 1995 sci-fi action, by Blade director Stephen Norrington. Brad Dourif plays a mad scientist who has built something, well, god damn terrifying.

The lighting, camerawork and audio work so well in this sequence. If this doesn't induce a bit of panic in you then you are made of stone.

http://youtu.be/nNRwoRiHxDU?t=33m21s

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276 Reply by TechNoir 2013-02-26 17:05:39

Re: Jurassic Park (32 replies, posted in Episodes)

277 Reply by TechNoir 2013-02-24 22:50:41

Re: Stand-out camerawork/photography/"shots" compilation. (47 replies, posted in Off Topic)

278 Reply by TechNoir 2013-02-24 16:31:39

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279 Reply by TechNoir 2013-02-22 23:44:55

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280 Reply by TechNoir 2013-02-22 12:54:53

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281 Reply by TechNoir 2013-02-20 19:39:39

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282 Reply by TechNoir 2013-02-19 23:51:26

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283 Reply by TechNoir 2013-02-19 23:27:02

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284 Reply by TechNoir 2013-02-18 21:49:01

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285 Reply by TechNoir 2013-02-18 21:33:17

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286 Reply by TechNoir 2013-02-17 13:50:30

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287 Reply by TechNoir 2013-02-17 12:06:39

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288 Topic by TechNoir 2013-02-16 22:01:14

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289 Reply by TechNoir 2013-02-15 12:12:23

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290 Reply by TechNoir 2013-02-15 12:03:04

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291 Reply by TechNoir 2013-02-14 23:55:34

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292 Reply by TechNoir 2013-02-14 21:20:18

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293 Reply by TechNoir 2013-02-14 21:13:52

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294 Topic by TechNoir 2013-02-14 20:58:44

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295 Reply by TechNoir 2013-02-13 14:28:10

Re: Your 5 favorite albums (36 replies, posted in Off Topic)

296 Reply by TechNoir 2013-02-05 14:23:32

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297 Reply by TechNoir 2013-02-05 06:24:28

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298 Reply by TechNoir 2013-02-04 15:45:50

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299 Reply by TechNoir 2013-02-04 11:40:13

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300 Reply by TechNoir 2013-02-04 11:20:25

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