Would you prefer it to be The Lion King, mayhaps?

League.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY THAT ZARBAN

YOU DON'T

HAVE

TO FUCKING

SAY THAT

WE DON'T HAVE TO READ THAT

READ THAT

READ THAT

OR READ THAT

OR READ THAT

ZARBAN

I made it halfway into the second part before turning it off. I don't disagree with what seems to be his only observation, but he kind of annoyed the shit out of me and made my ears hurt.

If at some point he makes it clear that he knows the whole subtext bit about the monoliths, then, yeah, I'd be able to have a non-contentious conversation with him about the movie. I just don't like his style. (And by the time I turned it off, he hadn't seemed to indicate that he knew what was going on with the monoliths and the general metaphor of it.)

Strong work, sir.

I edited Denny's post, because it included a pretty obvious spam link. That said, most of our spambots don't make posts that seem relevant to the thread they're in, and his did, so for the moment I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Spoilers. I'm gonna blow my wad right now, so I guess the real spoilers are for the eventual DIF episode more than the film.

Disclaimery: it's past my bedtime, and I've only seen this movie once. Also, I'm mad at myself for staying up writing this, so bitchiness will ensue.

I wasn't going to start a thread, because honestly - fuck it, I just don't care that much - but as far as I'm concerned, Thor was nigh abysmal. This is what I said to the group at the showing I went to, as well as to Twitter: "I didn't understand who anyone was, what they wanted, what stood in their way, what the stakes were, or what ultimately happened." The rest of this post resides on my read at the time, which could either be accurate, or based on me missing a whole lot of crucial information repeatedly.

In...four cases, I knew who a character was. Literally knew. As in, "they are so and so, and they do this." There's probably twelve or fifteen recurring faces in this movie. And for all of them - even those four - as far as the story was concerned, I didn't know any of them. Why they were there, what they were doing, or why.

This is where I need to be clear: there are answers to my problems, as listed above. I'm not saying Natalie Portman shows up and never introduces herself*, I'm saying I never understand who the fuck she is, or why she's in the movie and you aren't. This is a development problem, not a lack-of-detail problem. That said, detail was also pretty lacking.

*she actually doesn't, but I'll assume I'm being unfair - that said, as far as I'm aware, she's in the movie because she was in the desert at the beginning of the movie...because the movie needed her to have a job that required her being in the desert...so she could be in the movie...because they needed her in the movie...turtles all the way down)

I don't want to dwell on Nat Nat or any character in particular, but something must also be said for Thor. As a character, not as a collection of things the movie says about the character, here's what I know about him. He is one of two sons of Anthony Hopkins, and he wants to be the king that his father is. We learn by seeing in the beginning introductory period that he is also either irrational, retarded, or deliberately obtuse. (And by the way, movie, it's probably not a good idea to start throwing in aberrant behavior on the part of your characters when we don't exactly understand the universe to begin with. I couldn't tell if it was you being dumb and not assuming I might need help with this, or Thor himself.) In any case, because of a little history we know that the bad guys are bad, and years later when one of the bad guys does something bad, Thor upsets the delicate diplomatic balance and goes off to rape all of the bad guys individually to show them why they shouldn't be bad guys in a movie about him. This results in him being cast out of his world, because Anthony Hopkins is...wise. I think his reasoning was that Thor was just fucking his shit up. I buy it. Tell me about Thor's redemption.

...

And I wait. More on this later, moving down the list: what anyone wanted.

Not being an asshole, going to list what I know about the motivations for the characters right now. Thor wants to get back because it's his world. Loki wants...apparently...to be king, because who doesn't, amirite lol. Anthony Hopkins wants...things to stay diplomatic in Thortopia, I guess. Natalie wants... Stellan Skarsgard wants... Kat Dennings wants... SHIELD guy wants...

...wait, but Thor's four friends want him to come back because Simba is the only one who can overthrow Scar. (I think.) Loki is fucking up hometown, Thor can stop it, if only...

Item number three: I don't know what's standing in anyone's way.

It's hard to be specific about what stands in the way of these characters, because I'm no-kidding a little unsure of what they're all individually trying to accomplish to begin with. Thor can't go back because he was thrown out. I'm not aware of, and I'm pretty sure the movie doesn't refer to, a way he can get back on the good graces of his dad or people - let alone literally transport himself back. If he can, I don't know how he can, and thusly don't know what he has to do to pull it off. In other words, for an hour and a half, I have no fucking idea what he's trying to overcome.

Natalie's shit gets all retarded in the face of SHIELD guy, who steals it, because he showed up. (It does not appear to be more complicated than that, and I didn't even mention that I'm not sure how he knew to come or what he was gonna do when he got there. I think he's just kind of a douche. I'm not sure.) Loki comes back to tell Thor he's wicked fucked (but he's a bad guy, remember, so he's lying) and Thor goes "but I already was fucked," and now as the audience we know that our hero was a dick, got kicked out, and now has no recourse. Awesome, I can't wait to see how he pulls off his lack of recourse.

*popcorn*

Before moving on, let me make an important point. The biggest problem with the movie is the cause of these symptoms, not the symptoms themselves. I didn't know what was going on. Not in a Transformers way, where the movie is clearly improvising, but in a story way. I understand Luke, even though it's a god damned alien planet, I feel his pain when his relatives are dead, I know who did it, and I understand that he's learning from Obi Wan ways to eventually fight back. I later understand that he has to destroy the Death Star, or else the people that killed Owen and Beru are going to kill not only a lot more people, but the only remaining line of opposition to these bad dudes. When the final action sequence happens, I know the rules, I know the motivations, and I know what has to happen for my boy to win. As I watch it happen, every shot is a victory or a setback in some way, that I understand as it's happening.

You can tell me what Natalie's job title was, but you can't invent a different experience for me watching the film. Ultimately, a first time viewer had no particular understanding of who she was, what she wanted, what stood in her way, what the stakes were, or what she accomplished. Repeat Thor, repeat Loki, repeat SHIELD guy, repeat all of them. The movie was clearly happening, but I wasn't engaged-engaged. Engaged the way you'd be watching a sequel without having seen the original, sure - trying to fucking keep up and appreciate the setpieces - but not engaged the way you are when you know how completely fucked Luke is the moment before Han shows up, and certainly not engaged the way you are when he yells "yahoo" and surprises us by saving Luke's sorry ass. (Not to put too fine a point on it, but not engaged the way you are when you know Tony Stark is going to be killed right now if he doesn't make it out of Afghanistan, either.)

Stakes. I'm seeming more and more sarcastic as this post continues, but believe me, it's because each point is building on the last and it makes for a flimsy foundation. Straight up, I have no idea what would happen if Thor failed at whatever he was doing. (Whatever he was doing.) Would Earth be...destroyed? Conquered? Something about gas prices or taxes, maybe, would it be different? I didn't know what the downside was of Thor not winning. (Winning whatever it was he was winning.) I didn't know what would have happened to Thortopia, either. The bad guys would have taken over? Tell me the next thing. Not to be a bitch, but I would care because:         

Finally, what ultimately happened. Spoiler: it all works out, the movie seems to feel like Thor, who has learned to change his ways through trial, error and understanding (not to blow your mind, but this doesn't happen either) finally redeemed himself enough to return to battle his brother and save his world and ours from...well, whatever it was, I'm sure it was important...and the credits rolled. I walked out of the theater saying "god damn, it's a good thing Thor was around."

Who they were, what they wanted, what stood in their way, what the stakes where, what happened.

You think that's nitpicking? This is nitpicking: why do they have horses.

Good job, and I agree with Tom about the text location.

He looks like a mix of Stephen Merchant and Steve Buscemi.

The thing about anatomy is, the neck acts like a filter for all reason. When the neck engorges past the point of the chin, your ability to hear dissenting information is compromised beyond repair.

Hm. That was mean. He's not here, fuck 'im.