Even though this forum about bad taste has turned into a will-they/won't-they relationship about the Pirates trilogy, I'll continue on the tangent.

COTBP is one of my favorite fantasy films because Jack Sparrow is only crazy in small bursts. They even hang a lantern on it with the stories of how he gets off the island that Barbossa left him on. Love, love, love that movie.

DMC, however, fell short (or considering the runtime LONG) on my expectations.

Something was brought up to me not too long ago and I think it rings pretty true: Will and Elizabeth's story could/should have ended in the first film and the sequels could/should have been about how Jack Sparrow effects people's lives while learning about his past.

Be that as it may, I hated the love triangle aspect (or pyramid when you add Norrington) and I hated the fact that by the time they reach the chest I think the movie should be almost over.

The only redeeming qualities to the movie are the inventive set pieces, the aforementioned "jar of dirt" dance, and the big reveal in the last 2 minutes of the film. Other than that, I found it pretty "meh".

AWE is dead to me. Just recently watched all three of these (USA network had them playing back-to-back) and I honestly did not remember a single thing from the movie except the whirlpool fight (and even that is just fleeting memories of swinging from ship to ship).

Got a question (now that I finally got my hands on a copy of The Abyss) for everybody, but mostly for Trey -- do you consider this a perfect movie? It has great effects for its time and at the end it gets to its point of E.T. saying "peeeace", but by your standards does this stand up as a perfect movie?

I think the problem with Pan's Labyrinth is that it probably has a moral (and I shall explain it) but it doesn't hang a lantern on it so anyone who doesn't watch the movie and look deep (really deep) into the character's motives won't even scratch the surface of it.

Stay with me, here.

After much thought and a second listening to the commentary (I have a lot of time to listen to stuff at work) I think the moral of Pan's Labyrinth is: Make your own decisions and live (or die, as it were) with the consequences.

Why do I think that? I guess that goes back to the reason that the girl, though she dies, still "passes" the tests and goes on to HappyFantasyLand. To pass the frog test, she had to ruin her dress and get punished. For the pale man test, she doesn't pick the door that the faeries say is the right one. She "passes" the test, but  makes the stupid move of eating the grapes and almost pays with her life for it. To pass the final test, she has to choose whether to kill her brother or not, but (obviously) has to live with the fact that she stole him from SuperFascist. Blam, she's dead, but "ascends" to HappyFantasyLand because in the end she "passed" all the tests.

The same could be said for SuperFascist. He throws the mandrake root in the fire and almost loses the baby he wants so desperately. He shoots the little girl in the end and the rebels kill him for it (and all the other oppressive decisions he's made).

While it's not harped on and we don't get flashbacks of "Ah-ha! She made the right decisions and that's why she gets to go to HappyFantasyLand!" that's the throughline that I see through the film.

That's my rationalization and I'm sticking to it. *nod*

I've read a lot of people saying that the DiF guys didn't really say why people actually liked the film, but I'm fairly certain they did so near the front of the commentary.

The reason Avatar did so well is because it appeals to the common audience in a very OOH-LOOK-AT-THAT way. It's high spectacle on a simple story -- a night out at the circus for the American family.

Now, what I don't understand is why The Dark Knight did just as well (well, Avatar topped it) at the box office, yet had just complex enough of a story to keep people interested. Is it the power of an already known character mixed with an amazing story or was TDK really just lightning in a bottle?

I think it's a bit of both. The only reason Avatar does better than TDK is because of James Cameron's star power and OOH-LOOK-IT'S-IN-3D.

Clue. One of the greatest assembled casts come together to create the funniest (and only) film based on a board game. Even better if you like your humor served tongue-in-cheek.

Would have been drinking along with you guys if I wasn't saving my alcohol for the Lost finale.