See, even there I would disagree in a way.  Sure if you've got 84 minutes instead of 42, in a sense it can't fail to introduce the characters better.  But The Train Job is just unspeakably efficient. 

Look at just the scene in the bar, which isn't even the whole teaser:  you've got some kind of multicultural frontier setting (they're in a Western-looking bar, but there's a Middle Eastern belly-dancer, Mal speaks (swears?) in what sounds like Chinese).  The belly-dancer passes Mal a note, so there's something secretive going on.  Mal is established as being sort of light-hearted (the banter with Zoe and the loss of the game), but at the same time has some kind of strong undercurrent of belief in his opposition to whatever "unification" was, since he can't just let slide what the loud-mouthed, drunk guy says.  He's slightly sarcastic, a clever and somewhat ruthless fighter, principled.  In short, instantly likeable in a Han Solo sort of way. 

Zoe is clearly some kind of more straight-laced loyal sidekick, and there's a military dimension, since she refers to Mal as "Captain" and later "sir", in contrast to Jayne who relates to Mal much more informally.  Mal and Zoe have some kind of long-serving understanding, since she knows exactly how Mal is going to deal with the drunk guy. 

Jayne seems to have some kind of slightly unreliable younger brother thing going on.  When they get into trouble, his reaction is "hey, I didn't fight in no war.  Best o' luck, though." and outside the bar Mal says "hey, is Jayne even...?!?" ('fighting', or 'with us' presumably)  but then we see he's taking on like 5 guys at once, so he's clearly a great fighter and loyal at the end of the day.

Geez, how much more do you want for your 3 minutes?      And the whole rest of the episode is like that.

And quite rightly so!  It's completely great, and I love virtually everything Heinlein wrote after The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress.

Here's a random sci-fi question that's been driving me crazy lately:  I have this really hazy memory of a near-future sci-fi...police show I think it was...from about 20 years or so ago.  It was on TV -- might have been a short-lived series or a movie-of-the-week failed pilot.  Don't think it was a feature film.

All I remember about it is that there's a running sub-plot about how everybody's trying to get tickets for 'the concert'.  It's this big deal, and they never really let on what it is until the end, when somebody finally says something to the effect of "Man, I wish The Who would have a 'farewell tour' and actually mean it".  I remember just about falling off the couch laughing, since they'd been doing that since like 1982. 

Ring any bells with anybody?  Googling is getting me absolutely nowhere.

Yep.  Works for me.

8PM UK time on Friday works for me.  I'm geoffpoole2 on Skype. 

Just a thought - we're in that twilight period where the UK/Europe/Australia have not changed their clocks yet but the North America has.  So that may affect anyone who's joining us from the US or Canada, if we were going to go this Friday or next Friday.  I think, e.g., Los Angeles is only 7 hours behind the UK until the early morning of the 30th.

Relatively little, I fear, but the plan would be to try to get up to speed appropriately beforehand.  (Been an accident thus far that at least the ones you've been talking about here have been series that I don't really know at all.)

I thought Brian got kinda short shrift re his observation about the film endorsing Cartesian substance dualism.  That's an interesting point that I hadn't really noticed before.  If Bill Murray starts each new day without a hangover, not dead, etc. etc., but retaining at least some aspects of conscious experience like memories, then mental states clearly can't be supervenient on physical states. 

That's a bold statement, as John Travolta would say, but not entirely without historical precedent.  However, you're going to run into the usual problem, which is explaining the causal efficacy of mental states, and the film never really addresses...hey wait, where are you taking me?!?!?  I do not need a rest!!  Why does this ambulance have mattresses on the walls?!?....

28 Days Later

A group of young people fight to end animal cruelty.  Watch how they change the world.

Ah, the Toy Story films....

Actually, could I put in a request if you do those:  could you have an early-ish start?  Pretty please?  I'd love to hang out live but being 8 hours ahead is rough when you guys start at 4PM.

Pepperoni and pineapple is also great, by the way.  You get a really nice sweet and spicy thing going on.

Yeah, I think it's ultimately a question of having to agree to disagree.  I completely accept that I'm giving the film more of a pass than I otherwise would because it tells me what I want to hear.

However, I think it's too strong to say it's a failure of science fiction though, since I think science fiction can equally be about taking some aspect of our real world circumstances to its logical conclusion.  The argument is (on my reading) that our real life mega-wealthy of right now, today, simply don't fucking give a toss about anyone or anything (except protecting what they have and amassing more) and that point is made by describing a future society in which that characteristic is shared by everyone.  These characters may be completely "inhuman", but that's because the mega-wealthy are inhuman in precisely that sense, so the claim would go.  And it's underlining the injustice of that attitude by making it literally unnecessary in-universe.  (And, by that, further suggesting that the mega-wealthy of today could provide needed help at a negligible-to-them, effectively zero cost, and they, like everyone in Elysium, choose not to.)     

And I completely agree that that induces a kind of dramatic failure.  We the audience aren't (in general) psychopaths, utterly incapable of empathy for anyone who is Not Us.  But if indeed the film is sacrificing drama to make that political point, I think it's a vaguely bold move.  But, again, that's because it's playing to my prejudices.

Hang in there, Zarban!  All these things will be lost in time....