1,076

(109 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Sunshine had a scientific consultant: Brian Cox. I thought it's now de rigour for most science-fiction movies and TV shows to hire a scientific consultant. Prometheus obviously didn't have one.
How much can it cost to hire a science PhD from Caltech or UCLA? Sit him down with a red highlighter and go through the script for a couple of hours, and highlight the blatantly unscientific bits. $1000 max? Out of a budget of well over $100M? That tattoo make-up on the geologist probably cost more. Idiots.

1,077

(109 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Matt Vayda wrote:

He could go on for ages asking questions. So many questions that one could do a taxonomy of them, dividing them up into:

1. Problems with the science: DNA & evolution, scientists don't behave like that, FTL travel just 80 years into the future, action-hero with a stapled abdomen, David knowing an alien language, rapid biomass contravening the law of conservation of mass-energy, etc.
2. Problems with movie grammar: ill-defined character motivations, inconsistent behaviour, a storm that leave everything the same, struggling to escape from a crashing ship only to be crushed by it, redundant characters that should have been rolled into one, endless stupid dialogue, no subtitles on David's question, characters disappearing, David's sinister behaviour not explained, etc.
3. Problems with the plot: Engineer motivation to destroy Earth? Engineer reason to kill the humans upon waking, what's with the holograms? Worms? Getting lost despite having 3D maps? Relationship of LV-223 to LV-426, morphology of xenomorphs, 35,000 year old cave paintings that point to a weapons facility, secrecy of Weyland, why would Shaw trust David at the end, why would Shaw trust another Engineer, and dozens of other things.

It's the sheer quantity that's the problem. Every sci-fi movie has a couple of problems of this nature that we're prepared to forgive (e.g. magic bean), but rarely do A-list movies commit so many errors.

Matt Vayda wrote:

I've been meaning to post this for a while now, but I keep forgetting.

For a genuine, but humorous take on Star Wars in a courtroom scenario, check out Star Wars on Trial.

Basically a bunch of authors and essayists (many of whom have authored Star Wars related material) got together, chose topics to debate, and presented an argument for and against each, including opening and closing statements.

Thanks for the tip. Bought the book and am reading David Brin's accusation now - that Star Wars is more backward-looking medieval fantasy, rather than science fiction. He doesn't go for all this Princess, Queen, chosen one, destiny, prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the force, stuff. He likes meritocratic storylines where common people collaborate and solve their own problems without the legitimacy of birthright, aristocracies, predestination messiahs, etc.

1,079

(109 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Squiggly_P wrote:

Were those other people still on the ship when they drove it into the other ship?

When the zombies attack (can't believe I'm writing this), don't some crew get knocked off? When the old man wakes up, he seemed to have attendants that we've never seen before, as if they were asleep with him. The background characters are so bland, you can't care. In Aliens who know have many marines there are and how many die in the first attack.

Squiggly_P wrote:

And, avatar, I really don't get how the critics out there can let this movie get off. This fucking movie may as well be called Transformers 2. It's so broken. All it has going for it are the camera work and effects and ... some of the acting, but the acting really doesn't matter. The characters are ALL either stupid or hopelessly broken themselves. Their motivations are all screwed up, their actions often make no sense at all... It doesn't even matter that they're performed well. I almost can't tell if they're well performed or not, cause I can't figure out what they're supposed to be doing / feeling / wanting / etc.

It's like instead of pandering down to people with fart jokes, racist humor and pointless scenes of cool over-the-top action, this movie is pandering UP to snobby arthouse critics by giving them pointless metaphor, bullshit philosophy and confusingly bizarre sequences that OBVIOUSLY have to mean SOMETHING...  right?

As one reviewer pointed out, not only was there a difference between mainstream critics and genre geeks, but between British (where it opened earlier) and American reviewers. The Brits were more likely to call bullshit on it ('was it shit or really shit?'), whereas the Americans started bending over backwards to confabulate theories that supposedly rescued it from clusterfuck to profound meditation on human nature.

From Ridley Scott's perspective (& the studio's), it's a success. Box office? Healthy. Mainstream critics on Rotten Tomatoes? Overwhelmingly positive. Forums are abuzz with discussion about what it means. That can only be good, right?. "Let's do another one".

Single most cringe-worthy line in the movie: "It's what I choose to believe"

1,080

(133 replies, posted in Off Topic)

All those people that watch the History Channel's Ancient Aliens series will love it.

Then there's this stoopid 'Space Jesus' theory kicking around.

Just like Lucas said 'the prequels aren't for you, they're for kids', maybe it's a case of Prometheus isn't for sci-fi nerds, it's for flakey conspiracy theorists.

And Lindelhof is blaming Ridley Scott for the ambiguities, to deflect all the hate away from him.

1,081

(109 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Another issue with the movie no one's said yet - the head autopsy? What was the point of that?

Holloway, who apparently has been waiting for this moment all his life, the first ever examination of an alien body, is drinking booze and doesn't care while his wife reanimates a frigg'n alien head!

Then the head explodes. For no reason. Then they all just forget about it. Whatever.

Just like the storm, the scene didn't advance the plot in any way.

Just like Vickers trying to get off the ship in a life-capsule, only to die straight away anyway.

I just can't believe how shoddy the screenplay was! The more you think about it the worse it gets. When you watch the behind-the-scenes to The Social Network, there's weeks of Fincher and Sorkin and the cast going through the script meticulously scene-by-scene working out every character motivation to every word.

It seems like Ridley Scott just shot without even reading the script. "It's the bloke that wrote Star Trek? I'm sure it's fine. Right, let's go, scene 1, take 1, and action..."

What's also interesting about Prometheus, is the disconnect between mainstream reviewers (it looks great!) and the nerd/geek/demographic fan base that know the genre/franchise intimately.

1,082

(109 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Doctor Submarine wrote:

If anything, this has less to do with age and more to do with working in the industry for so long. Maybe for some people making entertainment products is like muscle memory. They don't have to try anymore, so they don't bother. It all depends on what they get handed to work with. Woody Allen makes a movie every single year and occasionally one gets him an Oscar nomination.


If you've become an established legend, then surely it's more likely that you've got complete freedom in choosing any project. It's no longer a case of 'what you get handed'. Sure, if you're starting out, there's hack- work, without final cut or cast-approval or even script-approval (e.g. Fincher on Alien3). But by the time you've got some big commercial successes & critical acclaim under your belt, you have more creative freedom. You can't blame late-period duds on studio-interference or poor material.

They don't have to try anymore, so they don't bother

That may be the reason, although I'd go further and say that even if they did try (and surely there must be plenty of directors that want to recapture the glory days of youth), they find it harder to come up with something radically new. Happy to be proved wrong - would love Blade Runner 2 to NOT be Crystal Skull or Phantom Menace or Prometheus.

1,083

(109 replies, posted in Off Topic)

bullet3 wrote:

I have to call bullshit on that whole idea. That's a fundamentally age-ist viewpoint, and I would actually pretty strongly disagree about Scott's more recent filmography. I think Kingdom of Heaven DC is outstanding, I think Black Hawk Down is a fucking impressive film-making accomplishment, and American Gangster is way better than people give it credit for.

Clint Eastwood has had many misses as a director, but he's also made several excellent films in the last 20 years.

Woody Allen has had plenty of good late career films.

I agree that there's certainly an aspect of a "hungry" young film-maker trying to prove themselves that results in a higher success rate, but it's not a firm rule by any means.

Reading the interviews with Ridley/Lindelof, it's clear to me that Lindelof/Spaights were the weak link on Prometheus, not Ridley. Ridley basically threw out a bunch of ideas he thought would be interesting (and I think they are, personally I think the whole Space Jesus thing is a really ballsy way to go and a neat sci-fi concept), and had Lindelof write a script around them. The flaws here are "connective tissue/dialogue" more than the concepts themselves, which is the fault of the screen-writer. Furthermore, the design and technical aspects of the film are absolutely outstanding, so you can't tell me Ridley's lost it or wasn't giving it his all on the project. If he's to blame, it's for approving the script, and not hiring some-one else to take a pass on it and refine the dialogue.

If Blade Runner 2 is being written by the original writers of Blade Runner 1 (which I believe is the case), then I think that movie could still turn out absolutely great.

Some good points. I didn't say it was some 'rule', just that a director is more likely to astound you with something jaw-dropping you haven't seen before when he's younger than older. You're right that the weak link with Prometheus was the script (and with Kingdom of Heaven it's Orblando Bloom), but the buck has to stop with the director who has final say in approving these creative decisions. It's not like Ridley has no clout with the studio.
Scott's 'bell curve' is shifted to the right, as he started late (Alien was age 42). Most directors are well established in their 30s. But you must admit Scott's output the last decade has been mostly bland (A Good year, Robin Hood, etc). His last great movie was Gladiator (2000). Compare that with his output in his first decade as director - mostly game-changing hits. And I would venture that's the pattern for most directors. Woody Allen fits this bell-curve pattern exactly - and because of the prolific output, there's high 'resolution' in charting the lame early movies, the strong mid-career movies, and the high proportion of duds in late-career.

The artist gets 'what they have to say' out of their system, and the fuel tank runs empty (sorry for the mixed metaphor). And in the sciences too (mathematicians are washed up at 30). Not saying I like it, but its fairly evident from biographies for major artists and scientists. The brain is a physical organ, and just like an Olympic athlete, it performs better when younger.

It's hard to think of directors, authors, composers, artists, scientists, etc that got better with age and did their best stuff after 50. There must be isolated examples, but for every one we can cite, there'd be 10-20 that fit the normal bell curve that reveals declining creative powers with age.

1,084

(109 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Squiggly_P wrote:

Yeah, it feels sort of desperate for people to claim that this film is a deconstruction or parody, or that the twenty minutes that got cut will somehow explain the 90 billion nonsensical things going on in here. Like people really desperately love Scott's old sci-fi films and need this flick to be at that same level. It's been 30 years, tho. That guy is gone.

He's an old man in his mid-70s. Cutting-edge artistic creativity peaks in the 25-40 age range, and drops off rapidly.  None of Ridley Scott's later efforts have been great (basically anything this century).

Fincher was in his 30s when he did Fight Club. Cameron did Aliens when he was 29. Orson Welles did Citizen Kane even younger.  Kubrick did Dr Strangelove in his 30s.

As Woody Allen, George Lucas, etc has shown, there's a bell curve of creativity which tapers off with age. Although one can always think of the occasional exception, it's more likely that your best work will be before 50 rather than after 50. In the sciences, age is even more crucial. Darwin, Newton and Einstein were in their 20s when they had their radical intellectual breakthroughs. The brain starts to calcify after 30-odd.

The bottom-line is that my expectations of Blade Runner 2 by octogenarian Ridley Scott are very low.

1,085

(133 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Doctor Submarine wrote:

Is there anything more frustrating than trying to have a conversation with Prometheus fanboys? They are completely convinced that the movie is brilliant if you bother to "look deeper" into it.

They assume it's some sort of sci-fi 'Mulholland Drive' that's supposed to be mysterious and leave questions unanswered. If only that was the worst of its sins. Haven't they seen LOST?
It must be a sign of insecurity to assume the movie is smarter than you, rather than they just didn't know what they were doing. The dazzling production values (like Inception) give the illusion that its very sophisticated, and  a sprinkling of references to 'deep topics' is sufficient to pass for profundity.

1,086

(133 replies, posted in Off Topic)

litomnivore wrote:
Dorkman wrote:

They could've cut Vickers and had David do the few plot-related things she did. How creepy would it have been to have David be the guy with the flamethrower, dispassionately murdering Holloway just because it's protocol? Make it clearer that they're all variables in some calculation, and when they're no longer useful to the equation, he'll have no qualms removing them from it.

That's brilliant. After all, David is the one that saves Holloway and Shaw when they get caught in the storm, so to see him torch Holloway in order to pursue the exact same goal of "protect the crew so they can continue the mission". But it would also show that David is willing to clean up after himself (although why he infected Holloway is, uh… missing), and give Shaw and David more conflict, because they're the main characters.

Combining Vickers and David is great analysis and improvement. On the other hand, the 'geologist' sounded like he was two characters that had already been crudely consolidated into one i.e. the obligatory douchebag mercenary toughguy weapons specialist, and a scientist Hudson-like coward. Did he handle weapons? Did he examine rocks? Would a scientist act so uninterestedly to the first encounter with an alien body?

The screenplay desperately needed a major re-write, not just a polish. That's the type of script one expects for a Roger Corman B-movie and the mismatch between a half-baked screenplay and A-list production values is what everyone is complaining about.

1,087

(133 replies, posted in Off Topic)

The bar has been set so low that just mentioning 'x' in passing is enough to qualify as 'the movie is about x'. Just mentioning searching for God doesn't mean your movie 'is about the search for God'. Mentioning the myth of Prometheus doesn't mean that's what it's about.

If I could summarize what's wrong with Prometheus in one phrase, it's "biting off more than it can chew".

1,088

(133 replies, posted in Off Topic)

I suppose the one recurring theme that runs through all ALIENS movies is that "bioweapons will blow-back on you". Bioweapons Blowback is the two-word term that sums up the entire franchise most succinctly.

1,089

(133 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Just saw it in London - in IMAX 3D. Cinema was full of 40 year old nerds that grew up with Alien/s.

The first act was full of cliches - ship's crew wakes up and don't know what's happening. They all have asbergers and hang shit on each other. The scientists act like truckers.

One biologist is swigging nonchalantly on a bottle of vodka while they examine the first ever alien head ever. Whatever.

The geologist character was awful.

Mr Enlightened UberMensh wakes up at the end (the big finale that'll answer all the questions) and just goes 'rrraaa' and kills everyone, like he's got the IQ of a WWF wrestler.

Who filmed and projected the holograms? What was it all about? Huh?

The positives: it looked great, the Prometheus ship was highly detailed, the 3D was fine, the score was okay (although I had prepped myself first with the score). Fassbender's acting was good. Production design was good.

The negatives: the dumb dialogue, all the cliches, the unresolved character motivation, the low-brow action (raa), the lack of originality in creature effects, etc.

Alien+Aliens is so good as a one-two combination, that this hasn't a hope to compare.

It felt like half a movie. I hope they have the Prometheus 2 greenlit and in the can soon to resolve this - that would be the only saving grace.

How does Shaw know the uber-race will greet her and her pet head? What if she steps out of the ship on the home planet, and the same thing happens again i.e. Mr Uberrace goes 'rrraaa' and tears her head off?

1,090

(47 replies, posted in Episodes)

Zarban wrote:

Happy anniversary, guys!

Change is bad (said the change management and training consultant). I have enough podcasts of dudes just chatting about movies and TV for 30 to 60 minutes a week.

Reminds me of the intro to this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiUlOlNX … ature=plcp

Kathleen Kennedy might soon have the power to reverse all of Lucas' dumb-arse 'additions' to the Original Trilogy...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-18314956

So what you guys are saying is that you've been living & breathing prequel-hate for 15 years, so you're over it. Through the looking glass. Level 10.

Level 1. What's Star Wars?
Level 2. Oh, I've heard of Star Wars. They're cool movies.
Level 3. The OT is great, the prequels suck!
Level 4. Let's discuss endlessly how the prequels suck
Level 5. Let's discuss endlessly how the prequels can be improved
Level 6. Lucas raped my childhood and I'm going to break into Skywalker Ranch and demand reparations and a re-edit
Level 7. Whatever George. Star Wars is now ruined, from the juvenile special editions to the infantile prequels to the cartoons to the whored-out-to-anyone over-commercialization.
Level 8. Burns all Star Wars stuff in a funeral pyre and says an an anguished good bye.
Level 9. The pain is fading, the memory is dim. No longer care if Jar Jar is inserted everywhere into the OT and the next Star Wars movie was a Jar Jar origin story.
10. What's Star Wars?

From the comments on this forum over the years, some people are on various points on this continuum. Perhaps it's analogous to Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 hours idea. You gotta do x amount of hours of grieving before you're out the other side.

Must.....refrain...... from.......bashing......George

1,094

(99 replies, posted in Off Topic)

The BFG from Doom, if I can't have the Death Star. Location: Manhattan, of course, because everyone loves seeing Manhattan get trashed. So at least while the duke is 'demanding satisfaction', the masses can pull up a chair, break out the popcorn, and be entertained.

Question: Does the popularity of fantasy imply that reality is dull?

1,095

(36 replies, posted in Episodes)

I was like that with Alien v Aliens. Everyone loved Aliens (it was so badass), so Alien had to be cooler movie for we refined discerning aesthetes.  Alien had atmosphere and production design, whereas Aliens was too mainstream and conventional. Now, after re-examining both from the production side of things, I have to acknowledge Aliens as the greater cinematic achievement. Sometimes the masses are right, and even though Cameron thinks he's Jesus Christ (same initials), I gotta (begrudgingly) give credit where it's due. That dude knows how to assemble a goddamn movie.

1,096

(36 replies, posted in Episodes)

During production, it was cool to trash-talk the movie as a certain failure. Too expensive, it'll bankrupt the studio, etc.

Then when it was released, there was genuine admiration and critical respect.

Then it just kept on dominating the box office, month after month. When it got really popular with the masses and repeat viewings by teenage girls, it became cool to trash-talk it again as sign of snobbery. I'm much too sophisticated for this derivative, manipulative, sentimental pulp.

Then trashing the movie became so popular it was cool to praise it for its chutzpah, production values, and sheer audacity.

And so on. It's an insight into the human condition. If everyone loves what you love, then you don't feel a like a cutting edge hipster, so you gotta go do the opposite.

1,097

(99 replies, posted in Off Topic)

I'd throw the rights in the trash where they belong. All semblance of credibility, of reputation, of goodwill, has been leached out of the franchise. It's been debased, infantilized, pimped out, and gutted of any dignity. It couldn't be more pathetic if it was $2 heroin-addled hooker spread-eagled and lifeless in the dumpster.

Which planet do you want to visit most? Mars? Pandora? LV-426? Middle Earth? Arrakis?

1,098

(99 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Carl Sagan has been auto-tuned many times, which (sorta kinda) makes him a "musician". There is only one Carl Sagan and he, more than any other, died too soon.

In a few years, you have your genome sequenced as part of a routine medical check-up. The doctor holds an his envelope which reveals the year that you're projected (accurately) to die of old age and whether you're likely to get Alzheimers, etc. Do you open the envelope or throw it in the bin?

1,099

(99 replies, posted in Off Topic)

No need to trade-in a healthy arm for an artificial one if it has a similar level of function/sensation. The premise would have to be if it was twice as strong or had inbuilt wi-fi or something.

You're on a 13 hour flight to Sydney and can sit anywhere you want. As you walk on, you notice there are spare seats next to James Cameron, Stephen Fry, Megan Fox, Richard Dawkins, and Jon Stewart.

Who do you sit next to?

1,100

(180 replies, posted in Episodes)

Talking about sexism in the Avengers...

http://themarysue.tumblr.com/post/23682 … nshevixen/