JP12x,

Let's toss out "masterpiece" and instead stick with "great work of art."  I wouldn't call Kill the Moon a masterpiece, because what does "masterpiece" mean within the context of television, but I would call it great and I would do that because I watched it, received it on the terms that it established and was stunned by perhaps the greatest episode of Doctor Who I have ever seen (to be fair I haven't seen the back half of classic Who).  The fact that many, many other people were similarly taken with this episode suggests that, yes this episode was indeed on to something.

When you say that a story cannot be great if it does not work for you, how can that be interpreted as anything other than you, Jp12x, are the final arbiter of what is great and not great.  I truly don't mean to be antagonistic, but how else can one read that? 

I would also add that you frame the discussion in terms of Kill the Moon (and Gravity) as being a "story."  To that I say, that television shows and movies are "films."  The difference being that the former term emphasizes the narrative aspect of the work while the latter acknowledges the importance of the visual aspects. This isn't hyper-relative to the discussion at hand, but I would suggest that by focusing on the narrative aspects of a work of film, one limits the myriad of ways in which movies and (to a lesser but increasingly more common extent) television can create different modes of expression.

Clearly (Cotterpin's damning faint praise aside) I am the only one posting here who actually feels good about this episode, and I felt very good indeed about it.  When you are the lone voice in a group, either you end up on the defensive, or you are a troll.  I hope I'm not coming off as either, as I respect that for most of y'all this is a disappointing episode of a show that you care quite a bit about.  I just loved it so damn much.  It's a great episode, it just happens to be a great episode with fairy tale science (and a complicated abortion subtext).

Regarding bad science:  sure.  It worked for me, I totally get why it didn't work for you. 

Regarding Clara getting angry:  It isn't about the Doctor forcing her to make the choice, it is about him being a condescending asshole about it.  It's about the fact that since he regenerated he's been increasingly difficult and patronizing.  His prick schtick as you say.  They are on the moon, surrounded by monsters, with a horrible choice in front of them, and he just takes off with no indication as to when or if he will return, and no indication whether he knows more than he is saying about this hard choice.  That is not the behavior of a best friend, which is how Clara has (to my eye) treated their relationship to this point. 

Or so it seems to me.  It rang very true to me.  I appear to be in the minority.  That's fine, but I'll be damned if this episode didn't resonate for me.  I was thunderstruck.

So... I made some posts on this board for a couple of weeks and then some real world craziness distracted me from the internet and I never came back.

Well, I heard about Dorkman last night and I felt the need to come back here to express my concern.  I came to this thread and... I don't know, anything I could say seemed like a trite "me too" from someone for whom Mike is only a friend in his head, as it were.   So I didn't post anything here.

But dammit, that was wrong.  There are many strangers who feel a deep affection for Mike and I am one of them.  That should be expressed.  Those of you who have a real connection with the man, my thoughts are with you and of course with him.

I totally hear what you're saying Cotterpin.  I think, as redxavier points out, my issues are less about the movie and more about the world I want my child (and all other people) to live in.   While I could nitpick further, but "is Mulan a great kids movie or only a very good one" is probably not a debate that warrants further hashing.

Lilo and Stich is an absolutely amazing movie, and Mulan gets heavy play in our household but Mulan is not without problems.  Mulan being a warrior is the exception not the rule, they sing a song about how being a soldier is the same as being a man without much irony, and unlike in the original story, Mulan walks away from being a soldier at the end. 

Again, I love Mulan, but I cringe at several aspects.

Doctor Submarine, I agree with your critique but can you point to mainstream kids films (Disney or otherwise) with better messaging and iconography of girls with agency? 

Picking movies to show your kids if you are a feminist seems like nothing but compromises.

I find it interesting that there was a lot of talk in the commentary that this movie's flaws were shocking because Pixar is so good at story.  Interesting because Pixar of late is not really good at that at all.  Before Brave we have Cars 2, Toy Story 3, Up, and Wall-E.  Cars 2 is flatly awful, and Up and Wall-E are both movies that everybody loves the first act so much that they ignore the problems of the back half.  They are all uneven stories that lack a strong authorial voice.  Even Toy Story 3, which doesn't really have the story problems of these other films feels assembled by committee.

I love animation and Pixar animation quality is uniformly amazing. But when talking about the storytelling of Pixar, I think post-Ranft, post-Disney acquisition Pixar is an entirely different beast.

There was a passing line of discussion in the commentary about the exceptionally rare Female/Male buddy roles.  When I watched Winter Soldier, I loved that this was the Cap/Widow relationship.  After I saw the film, I talked to people who unlike me, were not informed by the comics, and a bunch of them brought up the great  sexual chemistry between Cap and Widow.  We're so trained by Hollywood patterns, we see them even when they aren't there.

Some people are very sensitive to contrivance in story.  I have heard repeatedly from writers that one of the hardest things is getting readers/audiences to accept that the hero could do something dumb or make a mistake. 

It's one of those things where what breaks a movie for you is going to be different than what breaks a movie for me is different for what breaks a movie for Viewer X (masked filmgoing crimefighter).  I think it is a truly subjective thing.  If you are taken out of the movie, you are out. I cannot argue that you are wrong just because bad science/ lack of verisimilitude/ one coincidence too many/ whatever didn't bother me. 

JP (John?) I'm in particular thinking about how Gravity didn't work for you while it worked fine for me.  In a case like this, all I can do is say "trust me, the movie might not be for you, but it was a damn fine film."  And you have no reason to give me that trust because we met on an internet forum a few days ago.