826 (edited by Jp12x 2014-09-22 20:39:23)

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

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827

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

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"Feel free to flame me. I don't like Legends of Korra or Gravity, either."

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

Says the guy who didn't like Gravity?  roll

829

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

I post because I care.
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"Feel free to flame me. I don't like Legends of Korra or Gravity, either."

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

It seems to me that whatever happens on screen can't get me excited this season. The only thing I retain from The Caretaker was Clara's character being all over the place and silly, unrealistic interactions. The pacing was better, but the plot wasn't even that interesting.

Am I growing tired of Doctor Who? Or is there indeed something really wrong with series 8? Even the Doctor doesn't feel right. Capaldi's capability is there, I can feel it, but the script is forbidding it to show. This is frustrating.

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Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

I'm in the same boat as you, Sannis. None of the episodes that have aired so far have done anything for me. The only thing to have sparked my interest thus far is the whole "Heaven" concept, but that should be the icing on the cake (and a little less heavy handed imo) and not the only basis to keep watching. Character development is completely nonsensical, and seeing as how that seems to have been the plot basis of most of the episodes so far, I can't even. I like Capaldi, but the odd humourous line can't discount the fact that his Doctor completely unlikable.

And for fucks sake, can we go to a different planet? I can go to Earth anytime I want (hell, I'm there now). I'd rather have relatable characters on an unrelatable planet than vice versa.

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832 (edited by Jp12x 2014-09-29 20:13:25)

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

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"Feel free to flame me. I don't like Legends of Korra or Gravity, either."

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

I think this season is already better than the bulk of season 7.
I didn't care too much for "Deep Breath", but the latter episodes have been mostly right up my alley. They're not favorites at all, but great episodes all around. I'm still not sold on Capaldi's Doctor, but I wasn't on Smith until the very end either. Moffat seems to be the recurring project.

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834

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

That's interesting, Tom. I had the opposite with Smith: I understood and enjoyed him about halfway through his first episode. But, I lost interest as the season progressed. I don't recall what, but there was something I really didn't enjoy about the Pandorica. Then, the impossible astronaut had a terrible resolution and I disliked River Song more over time (she reminds me of Miss Piggy now). I've enjoyed all of Tennant's run since "Smith and Jones" (my first 2005 episode). But, his earlier episodes are ruined for me by Rose.

I think I'm just hyper-critical of story shortcomings. If the basic story doesn't make sense to me (plot holes and contrivances), then I can't engage with the emotional story (if I'm thinking "that is BS" I can't also be thinking "aww, this is so precious"). I know Davies and Moffat let logic fall by the waysidein favor of an emotional story or a 'stylish' or 'cool' moment; But, I loved 'Silence in the Library'; So, I guess some stories are better than others.

PS: My wife is loving the Lego Movie Extended episode.

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"Feel free to flame me. I don't like Legends of Korra or Gravity, either."

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

Ah. Um.

Well... Um, no.

So... Nah.

Yeah, I'll just let everyone else speak.

I'm done.

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836 (edited by C-Spin 2014-10-05 21:25:47)

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

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837

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

It looks like 'Kill the Moon' wasn't the gripping thrillride it was supposed to be.

I am officially not watching anymore. I'll check the thread and I would love to hear that things get better. I just don't have the heart to keep watching.

Hope I'll see you guys in other threads!

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838

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

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839

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

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841

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

Okay, well I am of the school that says Doctor Who is not science fiction, but fantasy that uses the trappings of scifi. So for me the absurd science is not a negative because Who always has dumb science.  It is a show with evil mannequins and subterranian dinosaur people and Martian Ice Warriors.    If you don't agree with that view, obviously this episode won't work for you. 

But if you are onboard with Who as a fairy tale, then “the moon is an egg” is a perfect idea for a story.  It is beautiful and weird and suggestive and magical.

This episode starts out appearing to be yet another Astronauts in Trouble attack of the moon spiders bog standard Who episode and then it lurches into something darker and subtler, almost a stage play where three humans have to make a huge difficult choice.

And it is smart and it is well-acted and it is nuanced and the fact that the Doctor takes off makes it disorienting and gives the decision gravity(which sure, is not an otherwise original dilemma). 

And then the double-twist of Clara letting the world vote but then overruling the world when the world is selfish and mean?  That elevates the problem of “do you be nice or not” into something far more complicated and dramatic. 

And it has all wrapped up right?  But no.  The Doctor behaved terribly this episode and Clara lets him have it.  There is a fundamental power imbalance in the Doctor/Companion relationship and the Doctor has always exploited it and this season he has been showing all of his least sympathetic traits.  And Clara does not do what Rose always did which was smile and take it.  She gets to be righteously angry and it is perfect.   

So for 40 minutes we have a perfect fairy tale for grown ups that is a showcase for spectacle, a mature exploration of a moral issue, and a character drama that ultimately affirms mankind's best nature. And then for the last five minutes we have a brilliant character drama that is firing on gears we've never seen on the show before but springs from issues that have been present for the entirety of the show. 

I was stunned by the skill at display in the crafting of this episode.  Most of the complaints levied here are things that I liked.  The only thing I take issue with is calling Clara out of character and a “bitch”.  Clara has always had a take-no-shit attitude and always treated the Doctor as an equal.   Good on her for getting angry. 

So  that's where I'm coming from.

842 (edited by C-Spin 2014-10-08 05:31:43)

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

I'm with you on Doctor Who at least insofar as it has NEVER striven to be "hard" sci-fi. But there's a difference between being space fantasy and being scientifically retarded. They get a pass on lizards buried beneath the Earth, because in theory it COULD happen, even if I know it hasn't. The evil mannequins are robots. The TARDIS couldn't happen but has a plausible enough pseudoscience explanation and is a device invented by a hyper advanced alien race.

That's all fine. And honestly I'm fine with the idea of the moon as an egg. That's clever and it's VERY Doctor Who. But you can do that concept without breaking my brain. I'm not even a science nerd, not by any stretch, but when you consistently get every aspect of the science wrong, in an episode set in our OWN BACK YARD, it really pulls me out of it. You could have this story without giant spider-bacteria that spin webs. You could have it without the moon's mass changing. The havoc wreaked on Earth was only used as the impetus for the moon mission, which could easily have been done any number of other ways.

It's one thing to play fast and loose with the rules, it's another to consistently violate them at every turn, seemingly through lack of understanding. Almost everything to do with the setting and the technology in this episode was scientifically invalid, and in a show that's meant to foster a love of learning and exploration in children that's inexcusable.

As to your other points... I honestly fail to see what's wrong with what the Doctor did. He's right, it's our planet, it's our moon, it should be our decision to make. Clara volunteers to travel with him, she knows the kinds of situations she'll be faced with. This is the girl who plunged headfirst into the Doctor's time stream to save his life, after being told it would kill her. It's totally fair for the Doctor to leave this up to hear and the astronaut lady.

You could argue that he didn't need to abandon the scene to do that, but I think he did. If he had stuck around Clara would have known he was there to pick up the pieces at the last minute and she wouldn't have acted. Her blow-up came completely out of left field for me because I legitimately couldn't understand what the Doctor had done to slight her.

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843

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

Regarding bad science:  sure.  It worked for me, I totally get why it didn't work for you. 

Regarding Clara getting angry:  It isn't about the Doctor forcing her to make the choice, it is about him being a condescending asshole about it.  It's about the fact that since he regenerated he's been increasingly difficult and patronizing.  His prick schtick as you say.  They are on the moon, surrounded by monsters, with a horrible choice in front of them, and he just takes off with no indication as to when or if he will return, and no indication whether he knows more than he is saying about this hard choice.  That is not the behavior of a best friend, which is how Clara has (to my eye) treated their relationship to this point. 

Or so it seems to me.  It rang very true to me.  I appear to be in the minority.  That's fine, but I'll be damned if this episode didn't resonate for me.  I was thunderstruck.

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

I think the parasitical spiders were a bit much. Sure, they could be parasites, and shaped like space spiders, but they obviously have no use for webs(as in catching smaller goes), as all they are supposed to do, is feed off the giant space dragon thingy.

I like the egg idea. No, I love it. It's just poorly executed. The mass of the moon could arguably shift if it was heavier, sure, but they also pick on the idea that the moon's been there for a hundred million years, but only in the recent 20 or so years has the creature matured enough. You could arguably say that the shift in mass was because the dragon was forming a new egg to replace the old, but the creature that flew out of the moon was nowhere near big enough to contain a moon sized egg, and it's also revealed that it dropped the egg off after it flew away. So it makes no sense.

As for Clara; yes please. Take her away. Now. I've never enjoyed her stay, but right now, it's time to leave. The doctor is fine. He's a bit moody and rude, but it's not as much Capaldi I have an issue with as it is Moffat.

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Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

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Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

In retrospect, I agree calling Clara a bitch is a bit much based solely on this episode, although I'm still not convinced her reaction was entirely justified. I'm also in the "Doctor Who is Fantasy with Sci-fi elements" camp, but they normally acknowledge their shitty science with technobabble or some other device, which they didn't really do here. That was my main problem with the "moon is an egg" idea.

And I also wasn't trying to come off as a dick, either, so sorry if that's the impression you got.

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847

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

848 (edited by BigDamnArtist 2014-10-08 14:14:34)

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

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849

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

850 (edited by BigDamnArtist 2014-10-08 14:30:15)

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

Tell me something. Given what you wrote in that post. Is it ever possible for something to be considered bad? Ever?

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