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100 billion visible galaxies, each with hundreds of billions of stars, each with many planets.
And the Creator of all that is supposed to care which hole you stick it in?
Or, as pertains to this thread, what gender your grandchild is going to be.
Interesting to contemplate that if you could just magnify that image far enough, at some point it would turn into porn. Weird alien porn. A couple billion times over.
So maybe that's what God's worked up about - he can't survey one iota of his Creation without seeing somebody doin' it.
So you understand that you claiming I'VE made up my mind and you haven't is a complete cop-out and nonsense to boot, yes? I'm willing to change my mind based on new information. You're not. Don't project your intellectual rigidity onto me.
Actually if you read my quote again where I answered your question, you will, in fact, see that I said that you are willing to change and I am not. When I'm talking about your unwillingness to accept my evidence, I'm referring to the idea that my level of evidence will never meet yours. That, of course, is based on an assumption that I may have incorrectly made about what level of evidence you will accept. I will not attempt to present scientific evidence to prove God. You may or may not accept anything less. If my assumption is correct then no matter how much of my evidence I present, none of it will ever be good enough for you because of your predetermined level of acceptance. If my assumption is incorrect then please enlighten me on what you consider to be the type of evidence you will accept for the existence God.
And how many statements of that kind did he make to your mother or father-in-law or anyone else that did not come to pass? I don't expect you to know -- you'd only hear about them if they did come to pass because my goodness how remarkable. Any predictions that didn't come to pass would just be forgotten and never mentioned. This is what I'm referring to when I say counting the hits and forgetting the misses.
And in all fairness you are assuming that I am overlooking the misses. You are not giving me the benefit of the doubt. You are simply assuming that it couldn't possibly be as I described and that I must be deceptive or forgetful. What if I'm truthful and factual?
I would like you to acknowledge that you have been stating a falsehood before we continue.
I hope I just cleared that up.
Oh and happy new year everyone! I'm going to a party at a friends house and won't be posting here til next year (har har) have a great evening!
Happy New Year!
Well, nice to see this thread found some new life*rim shot*
Much thanks to pastormacman for taking this on. It has been an interesting discussion, to say the least.
Interesting to contemplate that if you could just magnify that image far enough, at some point it would turn into porn. Weird alien porn. A couple billion times over.
If confronted with His wrath over this matter, I'd say unto the Creator 'Well don't create us with a sex drive then. Der. The God who invents testosterone and Emily Ratajkowski is just asking for things to fuck up. Bite me"
And I saw that life lived before my own eyes through my father. He knew my wife and I were pregnant before we told anyone, he told my mom. He knew our child was going to be a boy before he was born and told my father in law. Both of those things he heard from God were used as confirmations for something else that eventually came to pass.
Pure curiosity here: Who came to the conclusion that your dad gained this knowledge through divine means? What I mean is, did he provide this information and inform you that he heard it from God, or did he provide this information and you or someone else determined its source? Was the pregnancy something of a nice surprise, or were you guys actively trying for a baby (hello euphemism!) -- and if so, had you told your family/friends that you were actively trying for a baby?
I'm also curious what you feel the religious implications are of such an occurrence. God told your dad that your wife was pregnant and that it would be a boy... to what end? I know in the context of this thread you've cited it as a clear example of God revealing himself in your own life -- I get that part. But I mean in the more general sense: what do you believe God's reason for doing that was? What does it mean?
I'm not out to break balls. Just curious is all.
+2
My father was praying for our senior pastor for a decision that the church needed to make. In prayer he felt that he heard a direction that seemed counter to what the consensus was. He was unsure if he heard right and felt that God said "it's as sure as your grandchild coming" That weekend we announced to our family that we were pregnant. We had not told anyone we were trying for a baby, we really didn't want that mental picture circling in our parents minds :-)
With that confirmation, my dad moved forward and told the senior pastor what he heard. Like I said, it wasn't a popular direction and at first the senior pastor disagreed. It was several months later that the issue came up again and my father felt he needed to reiterate to the senior pastor the direction he felt God was leading but wanted to be sure that he was hearing correctly. This time he heard God say "it's as sure as your grandson is coming" at that time, my wife and I had specifically not sought out the gender of the baby during the ultrasound. We wanted to be surprised at the delivery. While my wife was having the C-Section, my father-in-law approached my dad and said, "God has told you the gender hasn't He?" My dad told him what God had said. Sure enough, just minutes later our first born son was born.
Armed with new confirmation, my dad approched the senior pastor again with confidence. Ultimately, through a series of events that did not go according to the senior pastors plan, the outcome that God had told my dad came to pass and is still affective to this day nearly 13 years later.
The purpose of God telling my dad about the pregnancy and gender was to give him the confidence that the rest of the revelation was accurate as well. The church needed direction and my sons birth played a part in that.
Pastor, I think that the sense of wellbeing and joy you exhibit is really as much confirmation that your faith works for you as anyone should really need.
The atheist camp can become a little sermonising, and here especially, it's a very secular environment. While I personally disagree with your religious point of view (speaking as a godless heretic), and do want to see more people become sceptical and demand evidence, that's not what everyone wants for themselves. And that's perfectly ok.
At this stage in the thread we're at risk of putting our own personal grievance with religion on to someone else. Let's be cautious of isolating or segregating and remember what's really important - the movies, and how to make them better.
+2
Pastor, I think that the sense of wellbeing and joy you exhibit is really as much confirmation that your faith works for you as anyone should really need.
The atheist camp can become a little sermonising, and here especially, it's a very secular environment. While I personally disagree with your religious point of view (speaking as a godless heretic), and do want to see more people become sceptical and demand evidence, that's not what everyone wants for themselves. And that's perfectly ok.
At this stage in the thread we're at risk of putting our own personal grievance with religion on to someone else. Let's be cautious of isolating or segregating and remember what's really important - the movies, and how to make them better.
Yes, by all means, play the ball not the man. And if your beliefs make you happy, then that's fine.
On the other hand, this is a thread that specifically invites people in to defend their beliefs. There's no reason we can't have a robust discussion of the arguments. We're all grown up here, so we don't have to tippy-toe around and given certain people a privileged free pass on their claims.
If I claim that I believe in an Arab Vampire Plumber that lived 3000 years ago in Assyria, I fully expect to be challenged to back that up. Just as someone else who claims they believe in a Jewish Zombie Carpenter who lived 2000 years ago in Israel should expect to receive the same vigorous cross-examination.
If your attitude is "I believe what I believe, I'm not interested in convincing anyone and I refuse to consider alternatives," what are you doing here? This is a thread for discussion, not whatever that is.
When I used to self describe as Christian, part of the joy was relishing in the fact that I did NOT know for sure. That there was doubt, and the distinct possibility I could be wrong. To me, part of the legitimate beauty of faith is believing in the face of uncertainty. It was partly for that reason that the schism between my idea of faith and other Christians widened. Even now, as a semi-practicing Soto Buddhist, I take great comfort in the knowledge that I could be completely wrong. I feel like many evangelizing Christians are afraid of doubt, and are quick to offer up as much anecdotal evidence as possibly to convince others (and themselves?) that their faith is in fact NOT faith, but the a truth that has yet be fully realized by others. This saddens me. I think a dialogue of mutual acknowledgement that no one definitively knows the answer of either our origin or purpose is necessary for a better world.
Last edited by Eddie (2014-01-02 19:39:34)
+1
If your attitude is "I believe what I believe, I'm not interested in convincing anyone and I refuse to consider alternatives," what are you doing here? This is a thread for discussion, not whatever that is.
Personally? Trying to ensure FIYH stays a bit special.
There are a million places on the web with this discussion - often far more "robust". It's a topic that by it's very nature is deeply personal and emotive. "We're all adults" also voted for George Bush, Tony Abbott, and Thatcher. Making the bar for entry a number isn't setting it very high.
It's an interesting discussion, but when it starts to look a bit personal to a non-aligned third party, well, the kittens come out.
And then everybody wins.
It's an interesting discussion, but when it starts to look a bit personal to a non-aligned third party, well, the kittens come out.
Was it, though? I don't think that was actually happening, the conversation was staying pretty civil.
It was on the edge I guess.
Personally, I would prefer if the FIYH forums stayed away from more divisive topics, next thing you know we're gonna have political threads arguing idiology, and then we gradually lose what made these forums unique: people of all walks of life coming together to bitch about movies
Beagles make everything better
It was on the edge I guess.
Personally, I would prefer if the FIYH forums stayed away from more divisive topics, next thing you know we're gonna have political threads arguing idiology, and then we gradually lose what made these forums unique: people of all walks of life coming together to bitch about movies
You can blaspheme against my Saviour, spit on my church, and curse my Holy Relics, but don't you dare suggest Nolan is a hack.
bullet3 wrote:It was on the edge I guess.
Personally, I would prefer if the FIYH forums stayed away from more divisive topics, next thing you know we're gonna have political threads arguing idiology, and then we gradually lose what made these forums unique: people of all walks of life coming together to bitch about movies
You can blaspheme against my Saviour, spit on my church, and curse my Holy Relics, but don't you dare suggest Nolan is a hack.
Christopher Nolan can go straight to Hell, which I don't believe in!
If this thread makes you uncomfortable, there are plenty of others you can read instead. I don't come into the Doctor Who thread and try to shut it down just because I don't watch it. We're well below the danger threshold.
Anyway, Pastormacman already offered a solution. I asked him what he would say if a Muslim made the same claims as he did and he said until such a Muslim actually sat in front of him to do so, they could be dismissed as entirely fictional.
Well, if those are the house rules, so be it. Until God registers an account and posts on his own behalf, he may be dismissed as entirely fictional. 
Besides, if you need proof there's no god, go see THE HOBBIT and remember there's still one more to go.
Last edited by Dorkman (2014-01-02 22:42:04)
+2
Hadn't occurred to me until now that more proof of existence is required to post here than some believers ask of God.
So if any gods are lurking and reading this - first one of ya to pass a Captcha test, I will worship you.
And... go!
DAMMIT MY KEYBOARD IS ALL EAGLES AND RIVERS FUCK
+4
What more do I have to do to prove myself to you, Trey?
At 9 AM tomorrow, I will cause a traffic jam in Los Angeles to prove my might.
Also, I will cause freezing cold weather across the Midwest and East Coast.
Also, I will make Jim's dog slightly more awesome in a subtle way that will take him time to discover.
Also...pick a card, any card.
Last edited by Zarban (2014-01-03 21:18:34)
Zarban is banned from poker.
Zarban is banned from poker.
What about strip poker?
That's different - I play to lose.
+1
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