501 Reply by BBQ

  • BBQ
  • BBQ
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2010-10-03
  • Posts: 137
  • User Karma: 19

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

Allison wrote:

I love Alex Kingston, but I feel like the Moffat doesn't always know what to do with River. She seems to orbit the Doctor and dispense clues and...not much else.

That's because River Song wasn't a character, she was a plot device.

BigDamnArtist wrote:

...the Doctor being the last time lord, because of a choice he made and has to live with, is THE most interesting aspect of the character. It's why I fell in love with the character and mythology in the first place.

We're in agreement 100% on this.

BigDamnArtist wrote:

But idk, I kinda get frustrated sometimes when there's ANOTHER Dalek episode or Cybermen, I mean there is this boundless, endless universe out there that we could be exploring and we can't get away from these damn guys.

We're also in agreement on this, as well. I'll go one step further though, and note that they've actually ruined some amazing villains by overuse...

  Show
The Angels are an example of an AMAZING one-off villain that should have never been brought up again other than by reference. Actually seeing the Angels move in Time of the Angels / Flesh & Stone just destroyed the scariest part of their character -- trying to turn a horror villain into an action villain. And I'm sorry, but the Statue of Liberty being an Angel is like one of those funny quips you throw out in a writers meeting for a laugh, but then drop it because it's too over the top ridiculous to ever actually put into the show.

Same thing with the Silence. Probably a scarier hook than the Angels, what with the ever increasing number of marker counts on the arms. They certainly are built to be a longer running villain than the Angels -- but then they just get turned into the hallow foot-soldiers of some nonsensical religious order? Ugh.

Some examples of good use of villains? Vashta Nerada, in 1 two-parter and that's it. The Beast, again in a 2-parter and gone. The Family of Blood, 2 parter, done. The Empty Child. Satellite 5 & Simon Peg (and Jagrafess). The Dream Lord. The Time Zombies (with a solid twist).

Even the Daleks & Cybermen are great villains, though have simply been overused at this point -- mainly because we keep being told they are all gone then miraculously they return and we're supposed to be shocked (shocked I say!).

I don't claim it's easy developing a new villain for every episode, nor do I think it's impossible to return to a villain more than once (especially when it's a race of villains) -- but how the villain is designed is incredibly important on how you use them and how often you can use them without mangling the character.

I do think it's time to design a new villain in the Dalek/Cybermen mold, intending to use it as a long-term recurring threat. They are basic designs -- genocidal destruction and the destruction of free will -- grand themes of which there are numerous others you could tap to create another equivalent character design.

Last edited by BBQ (2013-07-26 15:16:06)

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Red Deer, AB
  • Registered: 2009-11-23
  • Posts: 4,044
  • User Karma: 664

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

auralstimulation wrote:

We also can't seem to get away from England, either. Of all the places he could possibly go in the universe, he keeps coming back to England.

What? The show is made there? SO!?!? wink

That's not a huge deal. I like the idea that the Doc has a favorite planet, why the frack it's earth I have no idea, seems a little Terran-egocentric to me, but what are you gonna do. Big old universe and earth is the one he picks, astounding. tongue

ZangrethorDigital.ca

BigDamnArtist's Website

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Scotland
  • Registered: 2010-01-19
  • Posts: 2,430
  • User Karma: 264

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

auralstimulation wrote:
BigDamnArtist wrote:

But idk, I kinda get frustrated sometimes when there's ANOTHER Dalek episode or Cybermen, I mean there is this boundless, endless universe out there that we could be exploring and we can't get away from these damn guys.

We also can't seem to get away from England, either. Of all the places he could possibly go in the universe, he keeps coming back to England.

What? The show is made there? SO!?!? wink

It's actually mostly made in Wales smile

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Hamilton, Ontario
  • Registered: 2013-05-14
  • Posts: 291
  • User Karma: 84

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

Ah, I learned something today!

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Liverpool, UK
  • Registered: 2011-05-01
  • Posts: 944
  • User Karma: 365

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

What the series really needs is more baddies that kill with their boobs.

http://www.squaremans.com/images/DoctorWho/mars.14.jpg

Thumbs up +2 Thumbs down

  • From: Scotland
  • Registered: 2010-01-19
  • Posts: 2,430
  • User Karma: 264

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

*sniggers* 

boobs

Last edited by Jimmy B (2013-07-26 18:27:06)

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Liverpool, UK
  • Registered: 2011-05-01
  • Posts: 944
  • User Karma: 365

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

Not just any boobs, the finest Osairan, robotic, mummified boobs.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: State of Idaho
  • Registered: 2010-12-08
  • Posts: 2,367
  • User Karma: 289

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

Regarding the Daleks,
I cannot confirm it (yet, but I'm trying) but the original creator of the Daleks, Terry Nation, had control of the appearance of the Daleks in the series. Now that he has passed away, his estate manages and agrees to when and where the Daleks can appear. I heard rumor (but cannot confirm it) that part of the agreement between BBC and Nation's estate was that the Daleks must appear in every season of new Who.

However, this is only a rumor I heard and I cannot confirm it  hmm

God loves you!

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Red Deer, AB
  • Registered: 2009-11-23
  • Posts: 4,044
  • User Karma: 664

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

If that's true, then holy flying spaghetti monster that's some bullshit right there.

ZangrethorDigital.ca

BigDamnArtist's Website

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: State of Idaho
  • Registered: 2010-12-08
  • Posts: 2,367
  • User Karma: 289

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

Trust me, from what I read, the negotiations were not pleasant and the fact that we have Daleks at ALL in the new series is a minor miracle.

God loves you!

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: State of Idaho
  • Registered: 2010-12-08
  • Posts: 2,367
  • User Karma: 289

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

Jimmy B wrote:
auralstimulation wrote:
BigDamnArtist wrote:

But idk, I kinda get frustrated sometimes when there's ANOTHER Dalek episode or Cybermen, I mean there is this boundless, endless universe out there that we could be exploring and we can't get away from these damn guys.

We also can't seem to get away from England, either. Of all the places he could possibly go in the universe, he keeps coming back to England.

What? The show is made there? SO!?!? wink

It's actually mostly made in Wales smile

Right....there

http://www.map-of-uk.co.uk/maps/map-of-cardiff.gif

Among other places smile

God loves you!

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Bristol. Again.
  • Registered: 2010-06-17
  • Posts: 1,202
  • User Karma: 343

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

^ I can see my house  big_smile

fireproof78 wrote:

Trust me, from what I read, the negotiations were not pleasant and the fact that we have Daleks at ALL in the new series is a minor miracle.

I don't know the ins and outs of it but they did loose the rights whilst writing series 1 but were able to get them back. (obviously)

The way I heard it was more The BBC saying "Now we paid a lot of money for these daleks and your bloody well going to play with them!"

Extended Edition - 146 - The Rise Of Skywalker
VFX Reel | Twitter | IMDB | Blog

Faldor's Website

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Tokyo
  • Registered: 2012-08-15
  • Posts: 165
  • User Karma: 35

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

BigDamnArtist wrote:
auralstimulation wrote:

I'm sure that was intentional on the part of the creators, but it feels like such a big split in the show. The show during Eccleston's tenure bled right into Tennant's and while the show changed and evolved over time, it didn't feel distinctly different the way it did when season 5 started, in fact it always seemed to make a point to recall and remember previous characters, conversations and interactions in a way that I wish more shows would do.

I would lay this at the feet of Rose. Because she crossed over the gap of Doctors all the baggage sort of followed with her. Where as with Smith, it literally was wiping the slate clean, new Doc, new companions, new new new.

I would lay this at the feet of Russell T Davies, the show runner, creator of those characters, and writer of a huge chunk of those episodes. The reason why Rose is exactly the same with Ten as she was with Nine, despite the fact that it really doesn't make any sense for her to be so, is because RTD decided to keep their dynamic essentially unchanged.

The tonal shift we get in series 5 is not because we have a different Doctor. It's because there was a regime change behind the camera and basically anyone with any significant influence on the previous four series left. There have been rumors to the effect that there was some resentment on RTD's side when Moffat took over and that partly explains why Moffat was handed such a clean slate. Basically, RTD deliberately ended Tennant's run in such a way that it would be almost impossible for there to be much continuity, and Moffat began series 5 by trying to make the best of it.

The same was true of the classic series as well. Changes to tone of the show had a lot more to do with the people behind the camera than the people onscreen (not that the actor doesn't matter; Tom Baker, for one, had a lot of influence on the show).

BBQ wrote:
Allison wrote:

I love Alex Kingston, but I feel like the Moffat doesn't always know what to do with River. She seems to orbit the Doctor and dispense clues and...not much else.

That's because River Song wasn't a character, she was a plot device.

You cannot honestly watch the Library two-parter and tell me that River Song wasn't a real character. And for that character, in my opinion, Alex Kingston was an excellent choice. The problem was that, just as with the Daleks and the Cybermen, Moffat has thoroughly mangled River Song's story. Really, I'd say he managed a twofer, ruining both River Song and the Weeping Angels in the same two-parter.

I understand his desire to revisit the character and flesh out her mythos once he became showrunner. Unfortunately, the backstory he gave her just didn't add up to the character to whom we were initially introduced. The more he tried to make her time with the Doctor worthy of the payoff we got in Forest of the Dead, the less of a character she became and the more she was a poorly conceived means to an end.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Liverpool, UK
  • Registered: 2011-05-01
  • Posts: 944
  • User Karma: 365

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

Cotterpin Doozer wrote:

I would lay this at the feet of Russell T Davies, the show runner, creator of those characters, and writer of a huge chunk of those episodes. The reason why Rose is exactly the same with Ten as she was with Nine, despite the fact that it really doesn't make any sense for her to be so, is because RTD decided to keep their dynamic essentially unchanged.

You're actually the first person I've heard of who thinks their dynamic stayed the same. Many people (myself included) think they started to become a bit of an 'irritating lovey dovey couple' type, whereas I didn't get that with Eccleston. I dunno, maybe because I haven't watched any Series 2 in a while I'm remembering other peoples thoughts other than my own. Don't get me wrong, I do love Ten & Rose! Even if this post makes it seem otherwise, I still get it right in the feels when I hear the Doomsday score.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Tokyo
  • Registered: 2012-08-15
  • Posts: 165
  • User Karma: 35

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

Owen Ward wrote:
Cotterpin Doozer wrote:

I would lay this at the feet of Russell T Davies, the show runner, creator of those characters, and writer of a huge chunk of those episodes. The reason why Rose is exactly the same with Ten as she was with Nine, despite the fact that it really doesn't make any sense for her to be so, is because RTD decided to keep their dynamic essentially unchanged.

You're actually the first person I've heard of who thinks their dynamic stayed the same. Many people (myself included) think they started to become a bit of an 'irritating lovey dovey couple' type, whereas I didn't get that with Eccleston. I dunno, maybe because I haven't watched any Series 2 in a while I'm remembering other peoples thoughts other than my own. Don't get me wrong, I do love Ten & Rose! Even if this post makes it seem otherwise, I still get it right in the feels when I hear the Doomsday score.

Well, I might be a bit off the mark with that actually. I wasn't a big fan of Eccleston as the Doctor, and I fucking hate Rose, so I haven't watched series 1 in a long time, and I have no plans to ever go back to it. I guess what I mean is that it isn't Rose, per se, but more that everyone around Ten treats him exactly the same way despite the fact that he's a completely different person than Nine was. Ten also feels like a character penned by the same writer as Nine. And although the lovey-dovey nonsense was cranked up during Ten's run, it wasn't absent with Nine. He handled things differently, but he was just as much of a jealous asshat when it came to Rose as Ten was. So despite the fact that there was a new Doctor, there was very little disruption in the Whoniverse.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Liverpool, UK
  • Registered: 2011-05-01
  • Posts: 944
  • User Karma: 365

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

Ah right, gotcha!

I personally love how the show reinvents itself from time to time, giving it distinct eras. It keeps everything fresh and stops it from getting stale. As you said, it happened all the time in the classic era too. Even though a lot of it was visually similar, partly due to budget and just because that's how TV was done back then, there's a wealth of distinct eras. This is partly due to why I think John Nathan Turner's time on Doctor Who during the 80's isn't remembered so fondly. He simply overstayed his welcome and it all became more of the same.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: State of Idaho
  • Registered: 2010-12-08
  • Posts: 2,367
  • User Karma: 289

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

Cotterpin Doozer wrote:
Owen Ward wrote:
Cotterpin Doozer wrote:

I would lay this at the feet of Russell T Davies, the show runner, creator of those characters, and writer of a huge chunk of those episodes. The reason why Rose is exactly the same with Ten as she was with Nine, despite the fact that it really doesn't make any sense for her to be so, is because RTD decided to keep their dynamic essentially unchanged.

You're actually the first person I've heard of who thinks their dynamic stayed the same. Many people (myself included) think they started to become a bit of an 'irritating lovey dovey couple' type, whereas I didn't get that with Eccleston. I dunno, maybe because I haven't watched any Series 2 in a while I'm remembering other peoples thoughts other than my own. Don't get me wrong, I do love Ten & Rose! Even if this post makes it seem otherwise, I still get it right in the feels when I hear the Doomsday score.

Well, I might be a bit off the mark with that actually. I wasn't a big fan of Eccleston as the Doctor, and I fucking hate Rose, so I haven't watched series 1 in a long time, and I have no plans to ever go back to it. I guess what I mean is that it isn't Rose, per se, but more that everyone around Ten treats him exactly the same way despite the fact that he's a completely different person than Nine was. Ten also feels like a character penned by the same writer as Nine. And although the lovey-dovey nonsense was cranked up during Ten's run, it wasn't absent with Nine. He handled things differently, but he was just as much of a jealous asshat when it came to Rose as Ten was. So despite the fact that there was a new Doctor, there was very little disruption in the Whoniverse.

Personally, I think there was enough of a difference, but you might be right about the writer. Nine was definitely my favorite Doctor, but the fact that there was only one season with him and then hit with a new Doctor was a little off putting. At least it was for me, as a new fan. Mostly because the people who are around Ten are a lot of the same who were around Nine so there isn't that much room for treating him different without basically reintroducing the series all over again. It might have been more affected by real world events than in universe.

And, for my part, the change from Nine to Ten was still off putting enough that it took me a while to warm up to Tennant. The relationship with Rose was one of the few things that made it work for me smile

God loves you!

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: State of Idaho
  • Registered: 2010-12-08
  • Posts: 2,367
  • User Karma: 289

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

BigDamnArtist wrote:
auralstimulation wrote:

We also can't seem to get away from England, either. Of all the places he could possibly go in the universe, he keeps coming back to England.

What? The show is made there? SO!?!? wink

That's not a huge deal. I like the idea that the Doc has a favorite planet, why the frack it's earth I have no idea, seems a little Terran-egocentric to me, but what are you gonna do. Big old universe and earth is the one he picks, astounding. tongue

Well, one aspect that was established with one of the first Doctors (if not THE First) was that he was fascinated by humanity. He sees that humanity has great potential and wants to see them live up to it. It is one of the reasons the Doctor can be so grumpy when humans mess up. Because he knows they are capable of so much more.

This isn't really remarked upon too much with RTD's newer incarnations, save for the first Christmas Special with Tennant.

Also, why do all the super villains move to Gotham? wink

God loves you!

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Tokyo
  • Registered: 2012-08-15
  • Posts: 165
  • User Karma: 35

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

Owen Ward wrote:

I personally love how the show reinvents itself from time to time, giving it distinct eras. It keeps everything fresh and stops it from getting stale.

I think I'm more a fan of Doctor Who as a concept than the actual show, if I'm honest, but it is a terrific concept and there are times when the show really is awesome.

fireproof78 wrote:

And, for my part, the change from Nine to Ten was still off putting enough that it took me a while to warm up to Tennant. The relationship with Rose was one of the few things that made it work for me  smile

I know I'm clearly in the minority when it comes to Rose. She is a fan favorite and a big part of why they were able to successfully bring the show back. But if I'd started watching the show with either series 1 or 2, there's no way I'd still be watching it now. During the episode when the Doctor reunites with Sarah Jane, I wanted to  punch the stupid cow in the throat, and I hadn't even seen any of the classic series at that point. She doesn't  seem like a nice person, and I simply don't understand why the Doctor likes her or why we're supposed to like her.

Thumbs up +1 Thumbs down

520 Reply by BBQ

  • BBQ
  • BBQ
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2010-10-03
  • Posts: 137
  • User Karma: 19

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

Cotterpin Doozer wrote:

I know I'm clearly in the minority when it comes to Rose. She is a fan favorite and a big part of why they were able to successfully bring the show back. But if I'd started watching the show with either series 1 or 2, there's no way I'd still be watching it now. During the episode when the Doctor reunites with Sarah Jane, I wanted to  punch the stupid cow in the throat, and I hadn't even seen any of the classic series at that point. She doesn't  seem like a nice person, and I simply don't understand why the Doctor likes her or why we're supposed to like her.

I assume that means you can't stand Amy then, because her character is so selfish she's downright unlikable for a solid percentage of her run.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Tokyo
  • Registered: 2012-08-15
  • Posts: 165
  • User Karma: 35

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

BBQ wrote:
Cotterpin Doozer wrote:

I know I'm clearly in the minority when it comes to Rose. She is a fan favorite and a big part of why they were able to successfully bring the show back. But if I'd started watching the show with either series 1 or 2, there's no way I'd still be watching it now. During the episode when the Doctor reunites with Sarah Jane, I wanted to  punch the stupid cow in the throat, and I hadn't even seen any of the classic series at that point. She doesn't  seem like a nice person, and I simply don't understand why the Doctor likes her or why we're supposed to like her.

I assume that means you can't stand Amy then, because her character is so selfish she's downright unlikable for a solid percentage of her run.

Yeah, I don't much like Amy, but I don't hate her either. And if not for her, Rory never would've traveled with the Doctor, and that would've been a tragedy. In the beginning, I forgave Amy because it was clear she was running from something. Later on her behavior was more grating. But from the first Rory was a great character, and I wish we could've seen  more of him and the Doctor together.

Last edited by Cotterpin Doozer (2013-08-02 04:44:22)

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Liverpool, UK
  • Registered: 2011-05-01
  • Posts: 944
  • User Karma: 365

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

Looks like we're gonna find out who the 12th Doctor is a bit sooner than expected. The Metro newspaper accidentally put this up before quickly removing it.

New Doctor: The next Doctor Who lead actor to be unveiled this Sunday on BBC One
Thursday 1 Aug 2013 4:12 pm

New Doctor to be revealed this SundayThe next Doctor Clara will be travelling with will be unveiled Sunday

The wait is almost over for Doctor Who fans, as the identity of the next actor to play the Doctor is to be revealed in a special one-off Doctor Who Live broadcast on BBC One this Sunday August 4 at 7pm.

In front of a live studio audience, host Zoe Ball will unveil and interview the 12th person to play the Time Lord, one of the most coveted roles in British television.

The half hour programme will feature Doctors old and new, companions, special guests and celebrity fans, all taking place against the backdrop of a swirling vortex with Daleks and the TARDIS stationed in the studio.

Earlier in the week the BBC disguised the show in the TV listings, scheduling a fake ‘Celebrity Mastermind’ in the 7.30pm-8pm slot.

Doctor Who Live: The Next Doctor will end months of speculation over who will be taking over from Matt Smith, with Peter Capaldi, Ben Daniels, Ben Whishaw and David Harewood having all been linked with the role, though an unknown actor is perhaps far more likely.

Executive producer Steven Moffat said : ‘The decision is made and the time has come to reveal who’s taking over the TARDIS. For the last of the Time Lords, the clock is striking twelve.’

Moffat and Smith will both give interviews during the show, commenting on the role and what they believe it takes to play the Doctor.

Fans in America will be able to watch the unveiling live via simulcast on BBC America.

Charlotte Moore, Controller BBC One said : ‘BBC One is the home of big live events and this special live show is the perfect way to reveal the identity of the next Doctor and share it with the nation. The Doctor is a truly iconic role and I’m more than excited about the booking.’

Ben Stephenson, Controller of BBC Drama Commissioning meanwhile, revealed how they have been using the codename Houdini for the actor.

He said: ‘We can’t wait to unveil the next Doctor with everyone live on BBC1 on Sunday night. Amongst all the speculation and betting, there has been lots of fun and intrigue at work as we’ve been using the codename Houdini as a decoy! It’s the biggest secret in showbiz, even those working with the new Doctor on other projects at the moment have no idea they are in the presence of the 12th incarnation.’

Rory Kinnear had also been tipped as a possible Doctor, but after insisting that he won’t be joining the show his denial was compounded by his signing up to ITV drama Lucan, which films at the same time.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

523 Reply by Invid

  • From: Buffalo, NY
  • Registered: 2010-01-08
  • Posts: 2,037
  • User Karma: 202

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

Cotterpin Doozer wrote:

During the episode when the Doctor reunites with Sarah Jane, I wanted to  punch the stupid cow in the throat, and I hadn't even seen any of the classic series at that point. She doesn't  seem like a nice person, and I simply don't understand why the Doctor likes her or why we're supposed to like her.

To be honest, he liked her at the start because she talked back to him. Her character was always a bit inconsistent, going from independent reporter to childish companion carrying a teddy bear. There's nothing wrong with disliking her. I disliked the romance aspect they retconned into Sarah Jane's relationship with the Doctor. There was NONE of that in those episodes. Maybe some father/daughter issues, if anything.

Now, Tegan, she had hate sex with the 5th Doctor. We all know that.

I write stories! With words!
http://www.asstr.org/~Invid_Fan/

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Indiana, USA
  • Registered: 2009-11-23
  • Posts: 2,747
  • User Karma: 516

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

Earlier in the week the BBC disguised the show in the TV listings, scheduling a fake ‘Celebrity Mastermind’ in the 7.30pm-8pm slot.

Dammit. I was looking forward to that rerun of Celebrity Mastermind.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Zarban's Website

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: State of Idaho
  • Registered: 2010-12-08
  • Posts: 2,367
  • User Karma: 289

Re: Doctor Who is awesome, yeah?

Zarban wrote:

Earlier in the week the BBC disguised the show in the TV listings, scheduling a fake ‘Celebrity Mastermind’ in the 7.30pm-8pm slot.

Dammit. I was looking forward to that rerun of Celebrity Mastermind.

Don't worry. I have it on VHS wink

God loves you!

Thumbs up Thumbs down