Re: Looper, spoilers.

not long to go now...

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Looper, spoilers.

The thing is Avatar, I see nothing wrong with enjoying movies that represent a moral code I don't advocate in real life. The fact of the matter is that liberal ideology usually makes for bad/boring entertainment. There's a reason most of the best action directors in history (John Mctiernan for instance) are conservatives. Similarly, James Cameron movies start getting progressively worse the more he tries to inject liberal ideology into them (though admittedly, this was mostly a one-data-point jump from True Lies/Titanic to Avatar, but with the stuff he's talked about for Avatar 2/3, I don't see things getting better).

For movies that I think are incredibly entertaining, but also morally acceptable, I say look no further than the works of Quentin Tarantino.

I think Inglourious Basterds both humanizes Nazi's as real people far more than Saving Private Ryan, and at the same time is a brilliant meta-critique on why we enjoy violent action propaganda in the first place.

Reservoir Dogs is taking what would be a typical "entertaining" gangster story, and showing what horrible violence those types of stories typically gloss over, how terrifying just a gunshot wound is.

Kill Bill is taking a typical revenge story and grounding the characters in a level of reality inside the revenge universe, to where the story ends up feeling tragic rather than triumphant at the end.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Looper, spoilers.

Hmmm. Interesting question. I don't end up watching a lot of those I think because, like you said, I use fiction to satisfy my lizard brain so I can keep it out of real life. Also, now that you've got me thinking about it, for all that the RWNJs complain that Hollywood is so "liberal," I can't think of many openly liberal movies that aren't cloaked in satire. A lot of the ideology has to do with aiming to reduce suffering and conflict, which is great in life but boring in a story.

MICHAEL CLAYTON, maybe?

Thumbs up Thumbs down

54 (edited by avatar 2012-10-12 10:34:23)

Re: Looper, spoilers.

I find a bloody R-rated revenge flick as thrilling as the next dude. All I'm doing is pointing out how weird it is that us liberals get off on this (ostensibly right-wing fantasy) stuff.
It'd be just as weird as finding out that evangelical conservative Christians get their entertainment out of watching Soviet propaganda movies about the evils of the church, after which they'd shrug their shoulders when someone pointed out the irreconciliability between their beliefs and their entertainment, with 'It's just a fictional movie. I wouldn't want to actually live in the USSR'.

not long to go now...

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Looper, spoilers.

Eddie Doty

Thumbs up Thumbs down

56 (edited by avatar 2012-10-12 15:30:18)

Re: Looper, spoilers.

not long to go now...

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Looper, spoilers.

I don't understand why this is so hard for you. You seem to insist on a bizarre explicitly binary morality code. Things aren't either just good, or just bad, you factor lots of things in. Killing an innocent person is bad/irredeemable no matter what. If they're a kid, defenseless, and have yet to live their lives, it's a worse act. Genocide is even worse on the scale.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Looper, spoilers.

not long to go now...

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Looper, spoilers.

Yes, if you wanted to take it to the real extremes, that's exactly what it means. They're ALL wrong, no one is arguing any of these examples aren't terrible, nor are we saying any of them are in any way acceptable, but we're saying there are different "gradations" of bad. You know there's a reason we have different penalties for different types of crimes, we don't just say "shoplifting is bad, murder is also bad, lets in both cases give them life in prison". Similarly, Accidental, unintentional Murder will typically carry a smaller sentence than pre-meditated murder for exactly this reason.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Looper, spoilers.

not long to go now...

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Looper, spoilers.

Agree on all previous points re: causality and second magic bean.

My big question was, doesn't it seem like a bad idea to rely on yourself to kill yourself? Yes, with a hood there's no reason you'd necessarily know, but still. Why not send Joe to Seth and Seth to Joe?

Re: Looper, spoilers.

'Cuz it's super creepy to go to get your silver and see that it's gold instead.

It's a movie, that's an awesome device.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Looper, spoilers.

This is part of a larger discussion that I'm sure we'll have, but the more I think about it, the more fluid I am on the rule of the second magic bean.  It just simply didn't matter to me AT ALL while I was watching this.  Does that make me a bad film watcher and a loser who's bad at life?  Maybe, but the storytelling was good in almost every direction that it failed to bother me.

Eddie Doty

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Looper, spoilers.

My objection isn't with the 2nd Magic Bean as a principle, it's that to me it seems totally pointless for telling this particular story. The moral argument of whether it's ok to kill someone who will do bad in the future does not require giving the kid super-powers. You could make the exact same movie and take out the TK stuff with some minor tweaks here and there. It's a clear case of putting something in that he thought looked cool when it doesn't really serve the story he's telling, just clutters it.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Looper, spoilers.

I disagree.  In order for this particular story to work, the kid has to be a potential threat NOW.  Because it's not just a simple story of killing baby Hitler, where he grows up to be a threat.  He is a threat NOW and will therefore be a cataclysmic threat not just to Bruce Willis but to many in the future.  The kid has to be scary in the present, and the only way to make a 5 year old a legitimate threat is with something like the TK stuff.

Eddie Doty

Thumbs up +2 Thumbs down

Re: Looper, spoilers.

I hadn't thought about it that way....that's interesting.

I guess my question would be why does he have to be a threat NOW? Isn't it a more interesting dilemma if he seems just like a normal, innocent kid right now, but will grow up to be terrible later? I guess you'd more easily side with younger Joe if that was the case, but I'd say a better way to balance it would be to SHOW some of the terrible things this kid's done in the future. Right now the movie makes him dangerous in the present but tells you almost nothing about what he's done in the future, I think it would work better if he was innocent in the present but we saw some of the terrible things he's doing later.

This will be a fun one to re-watch with adjusted expectations.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Looper, spoilers.

I finally managed to see this last night. One thing I thought was very well done both as stylistic choice and from a film budget point of view was how they portrayed 2044.

We have the cane field which I have no problem accepting will still be around thirty years down the line with the occasional matte painted cityscape in the background which could easily have come off as cheesy and low budget as well as some nice high angle CG shots that pan down to a contemporary looking street.

But overall it works as selling it as being the future without being all Blade Runner

Re: Looper, spoilers.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Looper, spoilers.

The question I want to discuss, who thinks Kid Blue is the Young Abe?

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Looper, spoilers.

Thumbs up +1 Thumbs down

Re: Looper, spoilers.

not long to go now...

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Looper, spoilers.

not long to go now...

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Looper, spoilers.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Looper, spoilers.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Looper, spoilers.