Topic: 3ds Max and Particle Flow

Is anyone here a user? I'm trying to replicate the Doctor Who intro with the space/time vortex, and thus far, It's getting there, but I need help in creating dynamic textures, and making it a bit more optimized, since those render times are... insane, at best.

Here's a crude, rough test. It runs for about 30 seconds, but you get the gist of it after like...3. Nothing's really set in stone here, but I'm looking for a few pointers.

I'm using 3DS Max 2012 with Particle flow. There's a cylinder mesh deformed to a nurbs curve, with a particle flow emitter set to use said cylinder as an emitter object. The particles are custom clouds with a static material, facing the camera.

It's really boggling, since there are millions of particles, and they're not exactly rendered with lightning speed. It's more like a 1929 DeSoto.

Any help is appreciated. Like, tips on how to do it without particle flow, or with less particles.


-EDIT: Feel free to move this to the creations board.-

Last edited by Tomahawk (2012-05-01 12:07:23)

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Re: 3ds Max and Particle Flow

It looks like a lot of what's missing here is lighting in the tunnel, and then, once there's lighting, the illusion of depth into the swirling fog. What you have here is rather flat.

http://images.wikia.com/tardis/images/9/91/Vortex_back.jpg

I'd probably avoid particles pretty far into this project, and do it with a bunch of circular cloud cards with a feathery hole in the middle. Like, forty or fifty of those (you could set it up as a batch action in Photoshop, and just print out fifty different ones) and string them out into a tunnel in the 3D software.

I'll do a test a bit later today if I have time.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: 3ds Max and Particle Flow

Yeah, it figures you'd do a texture-based reply.
I'll wait and see what you come up with(if you have time), and work from that.

I did try to add lightning flares, but seeing as the texture is always facing the camera, there's no real depth(volumetrics) to help sell the effect either, I'm afraid.

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Re: 3ds Max and Particle Flow

Lighting, not lightning. Though your point still applies.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: 3ds Max and Particle Flow

Right. My bad. But yeah.There are a total of 2 lights illuminating the scene. Both are going thru the tunnel slightly before the camera.

Last edited by Tomahawk (2012-05-01 17:11:10)

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Re: 3ds Max and Particle Flow

Max user and old-school DW watcher (if not 'fan') here.

I had the same thought as Teague a week or two back when (I think) you mentioned this project in an off-hand comment in another thread...Cards with a feathered edge around a central hole, and I think that could be done in After Effects with a bit of scripting to organize your cards as 3D layers along a nurbsy-spline path.

In Max-- and thinking more about how they've done it for the show-- there's got to be a cloud/fog simulation running that you couldn't really expect static textures to mimic. I've only ever used partivolume fogs, so I can't immediately suggest The Best way to get the photoreal cloud look. One that occurs to me is to produce a few cubes or spheres full of animated volume fog, export them as Mental Ray proxy objects, and then use those as particles in a much lighter pFlow system.

There may also be a way to create a cloud-ish Mental Ray material with sub-surface scattering that would react to light the way the real effect does, and then you simply build the partcle system with blobby shapes of that material.

edit2
Third idea: create a texture mapped material and a 2-D animated, wispy, highly transparent texture for it.  Then apply the material to your tunnel mesh, using face-mapping (so every mesh- face shows the wispy texture map) and copy the mesh several times, each time growing the tube diameter a bit.

Last edited by drewjmore (2012-05-01 19:34:08)

(UTC-06:00) Central Time (US & Canada)

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Re: 3ds Max and Particle Flow

Another thought, you don't have to move the camera through the tube. You can have the (static) tube animated to wiggle around like a snake being held by the head, and move the texture past the camera.

Easier than splining a path through a squrimy tube. Just a thought.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: 3ds Max and Particle Flow

Gonna slightly derail this thread, but as I am The Doctor - I think it is allowed. I really want to start learning 3d modelling/animation - mainly due to me having access to Maya thanks to the university, but I have no idea where to start. I have done some dabbling before, but nothing too fancy - mostly just some really crappy models that I probably didn't even do right. Lightsabers got me started with AE & Photoshop, where could I start with 3D?

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Re: 3ds Max and Particle Flow

My self study method has always been to make up my own projects and then figure out how to do them. Maya has the built-in help system and tutorials, and then you're only a google away from plenty of you-tube tuts as well.  Autodesk has a forum called "The Area" for peer-to-peer help, and I could probably put you in touch with at least one relative expert on Maya (<-not me at all, Maya's inteface has completely beaten me, I don't go there anymore) if you ever get truly stuck on something.

(UTC-06:00) Central Time (US & Canada)

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Re: 3ds Max and Particle Flow

Teague; considering my nurbs curve is the source which all elements are animated to, I wouldn't call moving objects past the camera easier, but sure.

All good ideas, I'll have to do some testing.
Also, youtube kinda messed with the quality.

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Re: 3ds Max and Particle Flow

Owen Ward wrote:

Gonna slightly derail this thread, but as I am The Doctor - I think it is allowed. I really want to start learning 3d modelling/animation - mainly due to me having access to Maya thanks to the university, but I have no idea where to start. I have done some dabbling before, but nothing too fancy - mostly just some really crappy models that I probably didn't even do right. Lightsabers got me started with AE & Photoshop, where could I start with 3D?

kinda vague, but subdivision modeling tutorials for maya area all over the place. There used to be a site called "Subdivisionmodeling.com", but it no longer exists. HOWEVER, some nice people were good enough to back it up before it died, and their primer is online here:
http://www.blendernewbies.com/tools/sub … page1.html
It is a good resource. If you haven't read it already, read it.

EDIT

Because I'm a derp, I forgot to check the most obvious place first: the page of the guy who wrote the primer. Sure enough, he's got an updated version of the primer and a few other nice tutorial things (more instructional than tutorial, really) on his site:
http://southerngfx.co.uk/

Last edited by Squiggly_P (2012-05-03 02:18:11)

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Re: 3ds Max and Particle Flow

That looks amazingly helpful, thanks a lot!

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