Has there ever been a flame war here? I haven't really actively used the forum until 2012, so I don't know its entire history.

I don't understand what illiteracy has to do with it, and I also don't see how that makes Him a crappy God. We don't deserve any grace at all, so the fact that He's done anything for any of us shows his compassion. He's not going to save everyone, plain and simple; and it's not fair, only because none of us deserve it. The fair thing would be to let us all suffer.

You may disagree, but an opinion on what is good or bad based on a morality that has no ultimate grounding in anything but fallible human reasoning doesn't change what is truly good from biblical standards. If you don't accept those biblical standards of good and bad, you don't accept the biblical God and that opinion of Him is therefore pointless anyway.

In my experience on this forum, the cat photo initiative has done a solid job in preventing such things.

I'm glad that in the 21st century we DON'T take our morality from the Bible. What a barbarous world it would be. The Bible does't contain a single prohibition against slavery, but plenty of prescriptions of how to treat and punish your slave.

It's indicative that when Christianity was completely dominant throughout Europe (the Church was effectively a totalitarian regime) about 1000 years ago, we had very short harsh lives, no rights for women, gays, minorities, arbitrary cruel punishments, slavery, massive entrenched inequality, no democracy, etc. Dark Ages.

Only when the power of religion waned in the Enlightenment, did people start to experience an improvement in their well-being. Longer lives, more rights, a say in government, reduced violence, equality, etc. This was due to science, and yes, 'fallible' human reasoning. Yes, it's 3 steps forward, 2 back, but nevertheless, we worked it out for ourselves, rather than relying on a text written in the Middle Eastern iron age. The most progressive societies today are the least religious e.g. Sweden, Norway, Finland, etc - with the best statistics in literacy, health, education, equality, fair wealth distribution, low crime rates, etc.

Whenever people bring up how none of us deserves His compassion, we all deserve to burn, etc. etc., I really do wonder: why can't He just do what He commands us to do and just forgive? Why all this pointless rigamarole with the cross and salvation that ensures that some will burn, rather than just Him doing what we're ordered to do?

That's crap. To go along with avatar's argument, the Bible never condems slavery, rather openly endorsing it. Are you going to tell me humans were making a faulty moral statement when they decided slavery was wrong?

Last edited by Abbie (2014-01-04 17:40:32)

I've never understood the idea of an infinitely powerful, benevolent, being that is like "Hmmm...you guys, yes, you guys...not so much. Oh! You guys haven't committed your lives to worshiping me? Well, I guess you can just just go die in a fire then."

Last edited by BigDamnArtist (2013-12-31 23:19:57)

You also have to wonder why he lets children be born to parents of the "wrong" faith, as they're almost guaranteed to never convert and thus are doomed to hell from the start. Or why, pre-Jesus, he made no attempt to get non-Jews into heaven.

Actually, there was a strain of Christian thought at one time which said you were only doomed to hell if you had heard of Jesus and didn't convert. Thus, those with this view were against missionary work, as it would only send most of those heathen natives to hell, where as if you didn't introduce them to Christ God would send those who had lived good lives somewhere else.

Yes, a corrupt religious regime can have that affect. The Papacy of 1000 years ago was extremely corrupt. I don't really keep up on the current one, I don't subscribe to it at all. The idea of a papacy is an unbiblical concept in the first place.

Ungodly crimes have been committed the name of God, just as many more horrible crimes have been committed by atheist rulers like Stalin and Mao Zedong. But you can't judge a faith by its worst so-called adherents. Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:1-11) are a testament to that.

Because although He is a loving God, he is also a perfectly JUST God. He can't let evil go without punishment. It must be paid for. That's why Jesus came as a man - to pay our fine with the sacrifice of His perfect and sinless life.

Well, I'm off to a new year's party. Wish I had time to talk about slavery and such, maybe some other time.

Happy New Year everybody!

Which is completely unjust and thus fails to make sense of this senseless premise. Punishing an innocent person for other people's crimes is as much a violation of "justice" as simply not punishing anyone and wiping the slate clean -- in fact, it's more unjust since in the latter case no one is suffering. Either way he's breaking the rules; to insist that it doesn't count unless there's murder is the sign of a lunatic, not a loving being.

This being the same god who decided all of humanity (that he created) was evil because one chick ate an apple? And therefore no longer worthy of his love unless we redeemed ourselves by prostrating before him?

Of course, the fun part of that story is that Adam and Eve didn't know it was wrong to disobey God UNTIL they ate the apple, and learned about right and wrong.

Sure, but then what's the point of trying to please it or argue about it? If everything it does is of its own incomprehensible whims then it might just as well be a hurricane or other force of nature and is best ignored unless it is actively involving itself.

Which, indeed, explains cats.

Which I would be fine with if that argument didn't always appear after the person making it has gone to great lengths to explain what he wants and why he does the things he does and how those things can absolutely be known, only jumping to the "incomprehensible" gambit when someone points out that they're talking gibberish.

EDIT: This does actually show up in the Bible, of course, in the story of Job. God completely ruins Job's life to win a bet with the devil, and when Job asks him why God pretty much says "Fuck you, you don't know me."

Which, I mean, fair enough, but then fuck you too buddy.

Last edited by Dorkman (2014-01-01 00:10:32)