Yay, I love these films!

I have read and heard criticisms of the sequels, I've heard Mark Kermode on AWE and OST, and I'll even acknowledge some of those criticisms, but my opinion has never been changed. They're just too fun to hate.

It's okay with me if it's okay with your mom.

/would make a great father, ladies....

Not having themes, arcs, and motifs doesn't make a movie bad. Being dull makes a movie bad. But what makes a movie dull or pointless is very hard to define.

The best movies I can think of that don't have a strong theme are probably Ghostbusters and The Blues Brothers, and they're undeniably great. Even Back to the Future proposes the theme "be bold: get what you want". Bllues Brothers has strong character arcs (they're on a mission from God, after all), but Ghostbusters doesn't (well, Venkman stops torturing college students, so that's something). Ghostbusters DOES have strong visual motifs (statues are repeatedly used to suggest that spirits are all around us).

PotC:CotBP doesn't have any of these ("pirates" doesn't count as a visual motif; it's a pirate movie), but it looks great and is a lot of fun. The writers tried to give Will and Elizabeth arcs (assertiveness and independence), but it's weak tea compared to Jack's rags-to-riches greatness.

The monkey and the parrot would also be mortal enemies if it were an animated film. That is, until they became close friends by the end of the second act. And they'd look like Apu and Iago.

Honestly, if they were to stick Jack Sparrow into just about any shit movie, I would instantly want to see that movie. I'm a firm believer that characters and their relationships are the most important aspect of a film and override any other aspect. If you make characters that are good enough, you can have the rest of the movie be substandard in just about every way and still walk away with a big hit on your hands. Pirates had one of the most iconic characters ever, and had that character craftily manipulating all the other characters to achieve his goals. What you guys said about him not being the main character but being the reason people went to see the flick is spot on.

That's one thing that I think Brad Bird has backwards. He claims that story is the most important thing, but he's also been smart enough to put really interesting and endearing characters into all of his movies. There are plenty of movies that are brought out of mediocrity by their awesome characters.

That said, I know full well that the following Pirates movies had lots of issues and got worse as the films went on. But the fact that there were at least two or three characters that I totally fucking loved in each installment meant that I couldn't really care less if the movies are too convoluted or have scenes that are effectively padding. I get to see these awesome characters throw banter around or act like... well... like themselves. That just makes these movies way more fun to watch than a lot of big action blockbuster movies where you're watching Action Hero Cliche #2 go head to head with Over Acted Eeeeviiiiiilllll Guy Cliche #4.

Movies like Live Free Or Die Hard, X-Men: Wolverine, xXx, G.I.Joe, Expendables, Prince of Persia.

Not that they don't often have their own little moments, it's just that a really great character will give you tons of opportunity to have tons of great moments, where you'll only manage to stumble accidentally onto a funny line or something once in a while if you don't have a good character to work off of.

Personally I find Jack Sparrow overrated. It was interesting when he was this oddball side character, the funny man to the straight Norrington, Turner and Elizabeth triumvirate,  and it was fresh,  but then the next two films (not seen the 4th yet) overplay the card and Depp ends up playing almost a parody of Sparrow.

I don't think it's story vs characters, in my mind, to have a good story means to have characters that we care about doing things that we care about. An engaging, 'real' character is one that serves and gives meaning and/or relevance to a story. And the story is what drives and develops the character. Personally,  I don't believe you can get a good character without a story there to provoke (re)action.

I loved Ronin. The only thing about that movie that really drives me nuts is the HORRIBLE smoke effect in one scene. They added it to fix a continuity problem, but it would have been so much better looking if they had just reshot one or the other of those two shots.

You know what? I'm intently not listening to this. I love all 3 Pirates films (not counting OST, since I've yet to see it, and I reckon it should've been called Jack Sparrow and the *insert event/thing here* instead) equally, and considering you don't, I'm not gonna let you ruin this for me like you did the Matrix sequels. Even though I heartily agree with the latter.

OST has me really confused, cause people I thought were going to hate that movie liked it and people I thought were going to like it hated it. I have no idea what to expect now.