Re: Is there a God and why?

Dave wrote:

I'm not positive that what you appear to define as Christian morality is valid for everyone. Charitable work, care for the homeless and under privileged, and much of the private healthcare is frequently performed by organisations with a "Christian" orientation.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/local- … own,34860/

not long to go now...

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Re: Is there a God and why?

avatar wrote:
Dave wrote:

I'm not positive that what you appear to define as Christian morality is valid for everyone. Charitable work, care for the homeless and under privileged, and much of the private healthcare is frequently performed by organisations with a "Christian" orientation.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/local- … own,34860/

Oh for fucks sake, now even the Onion is subscription based?

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: Is there a God and why?

BigDamnArtist wrote:
avatar wrote:
Dave wrote:

I'm not positive that what you appear to define as Christian morality is valid for everyone. Charitable work, care for the homeless and under privileged, and much of the private healthcare is frequently performed by organisations with a "Christian" orientation.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/local- … own,34860/

Oh for fucks sake, now even the Onion is subscription based?

Uh, not seeing it on my end. Maybe it's just for countries that aren't the USA, which sucks.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: Is there a God and why?

Zarban wrote:

The idea of Satan always confused me. So he's a fallen angel, and he rules over Hell...wherein he punishes people who don't obey God? Huh?

I subscribe to Tom Waits' explanation on the subject.

I'd also accept that Waits is the devil incarnate. Which, if true, colour me Satanic.

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Re: Is there a God and why?

BigDamnArtist wrote:
avatar wrote:
Dave wrote:

I'm not positive that what you appear to define as Christian morality is valid for everyone. Charitable work, care for the homeless and under privileged, and much of the private healthcare is frequently performed by organisations with a "Christian" orientation.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/local- … own,34860/

Oh for fucks sake, now even the Onion is subscription based?

Learn to love Chrome's Incognito mode  big_smile

not long to go now...

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Re: Is there a God and why?

Doctor Submarine wrote:
BigDamnArtist wrote:

Oh for fucks sake, now even the Onion is subscription based?

Uh, not seeing it on my end. Maybe it's just for countries that aren't the USA, which sucks.

"You have arrived at your 30-day allowance of 5 free premium pages from America's Finest News Source. If you enjoy our probing and analytical journalism and want full access, we ask that you support our hardworking reporters by purchasing a subscription for as low as $2.95/ month or $29.95/ year."

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: Is there a God and why?

dj_bakerman wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C49H3aWdiK8

I'd also accept that Waits is the devil incarnate. Which, if true, colour me Satanic.

1:40 - "Crawling down Cahuenga?"

Send me an old translator and a young translator.

(UTC-06:00) Central Time (US & Canada)

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Re: Is there a God and why?

http://oi45.tinypic.com/m92eq9.jpg

Last edited by Abbie (2014-01-04 04:20:50)

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Re: Is there a God and why?

Doctor Submarine wrote:

There's a lot of stuff from Paradise Lost that gets conflated with actual scripture, too. That's where my confusion comes from.

Well, that got factored in a lot, too, especially the layers of hell, the different types of torture, the Devil ruling, etc, etc.

In the Bible, the Lake of Fire is meant for the Devil and his followers, for their disobedience. That is the origination of the Lake of Fire. Now, we have all these interpretations of what that means, of devils torturing sinners, and the like, but that really isn't part of the story.

Satan is also apart of many Talmudic and rabbinic traditions, especially as it relates to Job. Textual evidence for Satan's existence pre-Exile period do not support the concept of Zoroastrianism influence beyond reinforcing preexisting beliefs in Judaic tradition. One of rejections of Babylonian influences was the concept of dualism in that God and Satan are equals, which, in Judaic and Christian traditions, they are not equal.

There is a book about a man who attempted to live, for one year, by the Moasic law. Quite interesting, as some parts he found easier, especially in modern life, and some were more difficult.

God loves you!

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Re: Is there a God and why?

Ask a dozen regular Christian churchgoers their understanding of Satan, demons, Hell, and judgment, and you'll likely get a dozen different answers, most of which come from pop culture. There's no explanation for Satan or demons in the Bible, but they're all over the place in the New Testament.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: Is there a God and why?

Zarban wrote:

Ask a dozen regular Christian churchgoers their understanding of Satan, demons, Hell, and judgment, and you'll likely get a dozen different answers, most of which come from pop culture. There's no explanation for Satan or demons in the Bible, but they're all over the place in the New Testament.

There is some, but it is primarily in the Apocrypha, the book of Job, Ezekiel and Isaiah. In addition, there are also the Talmud and the Mishna and rabbinic tradition which give further insight in to Jewish understanding and that progression.

Modern understanding is, sadly, limited to pop culture.

Also, I really need to visit that synagogue someday

Edit: Of course, by pop culture, I naturally mean Milton's "Paradise Lost" wink

Last edited by fireproof78 (2014-01-04 05:54:54)

God loves you!

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Re: Is there a God and why?

Zarban wrote:

Ask a dozen regular Christian churchgoers their understanding of Satan, demons, Hell, and judgment, and you'll likely get a dozen different answers, most of which come from pop culture.

Floor #9: People who like the Star Wars Prequels, Transformers 2, and Prometheus.

not long to go now...

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Re: Is there a God and why?

If you interpret Lucifer/Satan as the morning star - bringer of light and enlightenment, driven and independent, then I'm completely ok with him (as a fictional character).

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Re: Is there a God and why?

Zarban wrote:

WAIT. I'm totally changing my position. There IS a God.

Of course there's a God. I've seen his Angels. They couldn't have just happened by chance.

http://i39.tinypic.com/15hh0lh.jpg

not long to go now...

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Re: Is there a God and why?

**It's 2021 now and I hate everything I've said in this thread.**

Last edited by oTom (2021-11-13 05:16:33)

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291

Re: Is there a God and why?

**It's 2021 now and I hate everything I've said in this thread.**

Last edited by oTom (2021-11-13 05:16:22)

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Re: Is there a God and why?

Talk about a god with an inflated view of himself!

Anyhow, this is how I picture heaven. Funny how all our imagination can conjur is "white".

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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Re: Is there a God and why?

iJim wrote:

What I said was Christianity wasn't responsible for the fall of Rome or the start of the dark ages. Second, you keep talking about Christianity as if it was the worst possible institution for people to channel their fear and superstition into. When, in 600 AD, you have Umar burning the Library of Alexandria with the reasoning: "If those books are in agreement with the Quran, we have no need of them. And if they're opposed to the Quran, destroy them."

You had mongol hordes who places no emphasis on anything but tribute, the goths feared Odin, the vikings had an economy based on plunder, etc. It was a goddamn mess. So while Christianity was the dominant form of religious repression, religious oppression wasn't because of Christianity. That's my point.

No one knows who burned down the two libraries of Alexandria: the Romans, the Christians, the Muslims. Sources are vague and contradictory.

I agree with you that the fall of Rome wasn't due to Christianity. I merely said that Christianity was responsible for the ensuing dark ages being so protracted, due to shunning all forms of engagement with the world. Scholasticism in the early universities was primarily concerned with esoteric Biblical questions such as the nature of the Trinity, what happens to babies who die young, reconciling Plato & Aristotle with the Bible, etc.
I agree with you that Christianity wasn't the only repressive religion around. After an all-too-brief "golden age" in Baghdad around 1000 years ago, the Islamic 'House of Wisdom' was also shut down, just like the Platonic Academies were shut down by Justinian. And Islam is still in a dark age - look at Saudi Arabia now (a snapshot of what Europe was like 1000 years ago). Give any religion or political ideology too much power, and all hell breaks loose.

not long to go now...

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Re: Is there a God and why?

avatar wrote:

No one knows who burned down the two libraries of Alexandria: the Romans, the Christians, the Muslims. Sources are vague and contradictory.

I'm in the Umar Did It camp - but that's a different discussion for a different thread.

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Re: Is there a God and why?

redxavier wrote:

Talk about a god with an inflated view of himself!

Anyhow, this is how I picture heaven. Funny how all our imagination can conjur is "white".

Here's another good Hell sketch...

not long to go now...

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Re: Is there a God and why?

iJim wrote:
avatar wrote:

No one knows who burned down the two libraries of Alexandria: the Romans, the Christians, the Muslims. Sources are vague and contradictory.

I'm in the Umar Did It camp - but that's a different discussion for a different thread.

Carl Sagan keeps the blame vague in Cosmos... 'an angry mob'. In the movie AGORA, the second library is depicted as being pillaged by an inflamed up-and-rising Christian mob, out to destroy heretical pagan texts. The wiki page cites several culprits.

If there's a photocopier in the Tardis, the Doctor should get to work.

not long to go now...

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Re: Is there a God and why?

redxavier wrote:

Anyhow, this is how I picture heaven. Funny how all our imagination can conjur is "white".

I actually really like the Supernatural (tv show) idea of heaven, where we all just sort of exsist in our own little universe that's a little replica of how we wanted our life on earth to be, rich, famous, a good keg of beer every night, alone and everyone else has buggered off etc.

*Clarification: Not as what I'd actually like heaven to be for myself, but just conceptually, it's way more grounded than a lot of other versions of heaven and it fits well with the rest of supernaturals mythology.

Last edited by BigDamnArtist (2014-01-04 18:34:55)

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298

Re: Is there a God and why?

One ancient church father (I think Tertullian) thought that the main joy of heaven was getting to watch all the unbelievers writhe in agony in hell, and contemplate how much better off we are. Because he recognized that the concept of heaven, Biblically at least, is an incredibly boring one.

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299

Re: Is there a God and why?

Doctor Submarine wrote:

There's a lot of stuff from Paradise Lost that gets conflated with actual scripture, too. That's where my confusion comes from.

And, a lot of that came from Hebrew books that didn't make it into the scriptures because they were written too late, but were read by early Christians. Whole swaths of Christian beliefs came from sources later forgotten, making it hard to reverse engineer them.

I write stories! With words!
http://www.asstr.org/~Invid_Fan/

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Re: Is there a God and why?

I've been listening to several episodes recently while driving and working. Today, while listening to the "Few Good Men" commentary, I heard several of you mention your experience with having to wear uniforms in school and I suddenly noticed a pattern. Some of the most vocal anti-religion people who have posted on this thread are people who have grown up in church, specifically the Catholic Church, and/or went to catholic school as kids. I wonder if there is a pattern to be drawn.

There was a famous quote by a guy named Brennon Manning:

"The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians: who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable."

I know it's simplistic in nature and ignores the scientific aspect of proving God. But I think there's some truth to it in that, usually, the strongest anti-theists are usually people who had bad experiences with the church. My atheist friend grew up in the Catholic Church and even taught history at a catholic school before he lost his faith.

Just something I observed while driving in my car today listening to my favorite podcast.

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