For those that are interested, the book being discussed is 45 Master Characters.

The Incredibles.  Originally, I was only going to say Mr. Incredible, but really all of them start off well, their life gets stripped away and they have to fight opposition to come to protect everyone.  The only problem is they get quite a bit of acknowledge at the end, but super hero identities do, not their secret identities.

Thinking about it, a lot of John Carpenter movies fit this model too. The Thing, the characters are living their normal lives (granted it's cold, but this is their job by choice), have to battle this creature, and in the end its not clear they've been successful, they're all dead and no-one from the outside will ever know what happened.

They Live, very similar (shockingly so, thinking about it, characters dead to save the world, no one will ever know it was them).

Big Trouble in Little China also fits the bill to an extent. I suppose Jack Burton's friends know he succeeded, but to the rest of the world he's just a crazy guy broadcasting on his CV radio. That one is a worse example probably, since he doesn't grow as a character (and continues thinking he's the hero instead of the sidekick).

I mentioned it in the chat during the episode but it likely got lost amidst the discussion or no-one had ever heard of it, but there's a European comic called The Wheel - The Prophecy of Korot (and by European I meant it's non-English). It's set in a future society where criminals are sentenced to live out their lives in an alternate dimension/dream state, and the story involves a man whose sentence involves him living out a life in this fantasy Conan the Barbarian-like realm... as a princess. It's a bizarre story and involves this guy-as-a-girl leading a kingdom to victory in a war. At the end he returns back to his reality and with his sentence over continues his normal life, no-one being any the wiser about what he accomplished whilst in the form of this princess.

I thought it was a really interesting twist on the hero/heroine's journey. Worth googling and reading a scanalation, since I don't believe it's published in English.

An example of a movie where the hero loses all his powers and is ok with being normal at the end is TRON.

Weird thing is, I was starting to write a script for a movie I wanted to make called "A Heroine's Journey" about a month ago. Coincidence? I think so.

So a crude summary is the male journey is about rising status (schmuck to king), and the female journey is about status maintenance.

This maps onto evolutionary psychology i.e. men seek status (wealth, power, fame) to maximize their mating opportunities.

Women, on the other hand, start off with all the status they're ever going to get, because it's all about beauty and beauty generally peaks in their late-teens. So their quest is about maintaining what status they have.

Interesting ideas.

The Long Kiss Good Night fits the template.

How about Sarah Connor's storyline in the Terminator franchise?

No. The ending of the heroines journey isn't just about not being recognized and praised, it's about the character not needing to be recognized and praised. It's about her(/him) having gone through the journey, and changed internally, such that on her return she doesn't need that praise in order to understand and appreciate what just happened.

It's a very machoism vs humility thing. Machoists (?) need other people to tell them they saved the day so they can feel good about what they did, the humble can understand and appreciate what has happened on thier own.

Yeah, I'm sure she was in the papers for a while after everything went down.

Although on the subject of HP, Kreacher might be the closest thing in there to a Heroines Arc. He goes from a lowely, abused house elf, to become a likeable enough character that kinda likes the gang, to leading the Hogwarts house elves against Voldy. And finally returning to a humble life (Implied, but it's still there), unrecognized.

EDIT: Although if we include the whole part of falling from royalty and having to regain it. Not so much. So maybe it's half and half.

Last edited by BigDamnArtist (2012-03-08 04:07:26)

What about Princess Leia in Star Wars (ANH)? She undergoes no change in status, arguably learns to be a better person (the Leia of the first half would never have rushed out to hug Luke and Han), and doesn't get a medal at the end (she's the one handing them out!).

Awesome!

Fuck yeah!