Topic: Film Series

So today Peter Jackson announced that The Hobbit will be a trilogy, as he teased at during Comic-Con. On the one hand, I've got some concern ranging from "well, I guess this rules out extended editions if he's using that footage for a third film" to "this is really late in the game". On the other hand, I love The Lord of the Rings film trilogy like few things else, so I'm just kind of stunned by the idea I get to spend another two to three hours in this cinematic universe.

I thought this might be a good jumping off point to discuss film series as a whole, since this is a fairly unique occurrence—the only other film I know that was intended to be one film and later released as two is Richard Lester's The Three Musketeers and The Four Musketeers. So let's talk series, people—especially how to do it right.

Personally, I have little experience with film series outside of Toy Story, The Lord of the Rings, and the Marvel cinematic universe, which are examples of different kinds of series. Toy Story is—well, was—an open-ended franchise that decided to become cohesive at some point and ended up actually engaging with end-game issues in order to create a compelling trilogy. (The rumors of a fourth film leave me cold.) The The Lord of the Rings films were always intended as three films, so I consider those close-ended. And the Marvel cinematic universe is open-ended. That can be a good thing and these films, I think, have done well so far, but television has hurt me, because that's a place where "open-ended" often means "plateau".

But overall, I tend to be hopeful about film series, because they tend to understand, especially if they're released fairly far apart from each other, that each film needs to be satisfying on its own. The Harry Potter films miss this towards the end, when they begin to assume that you've read the book or seen the other films. The ideal here, I think, is a film that's satisfying on its own but becomes more satisfying when viewed in context with its series. I also come from the world of books, where people think it's totally okay to eschew proper plot structure when writing the first book of a series, because they fail to grasp the concept that The Lord of the Rings was a single novel, not a trilogy. Film series look amazing compared to some of the stuff I've encountered in books.

Ultimately, I tend to prefer close-ended series, because there's nothing stopping the film from being all it can be—the toys don't have to go back in the box in more-or-less the same condition. I think this is why I liked Superman Returns; for all its flaws (of which Brandon Routh was not one; that man should get more work), I feel it's fairly rare among superhero films for dealing with end-game content such as a lover leaving you and moving on with her life. Of course, I haven't seen The Dark Knight Rises yet, but I hear good things about that in terms of serial storytelling. Feel free to discuss it below.

So? What do y'all make of film series?

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Re: Film Series

I don't think anything, yet, but I'll mull on this today and hopefully have some thoughts by the evening.

Great post.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Brian was like "I hope he doesn't fuck this up" and I was like "Pshaw, how could he possibly fuck up THE HOBBIT."

neutral

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Re: Film Series

Truthfully, I was worried about The Hobbit being artificially split into 2 films, and now they're making it a trilogy. So, basically even more made up stuff and almost definitely more offball dwarf humour - things which I thought were among the weakess elements of LOTR. Dare I say this smells like hubris. I just reallly hope it doesn't backfire and we end up getting 3 films that are almost immediately fan edited by everyone and their tennis partner into one 3 hour epic.

The nature of film series is that they're going to be at best uneven, since different people are going to involved and/or the same people are going to run out of ideas/steam (or worst, misunderstand why the series was successful in the first place). The longest running series (in the west anyway) has got to be Bond, and they're all over the place with some fantastic ones and some which are pretty meh.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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Re: Film Series

Is this the fault of the Extended Editions being so popular amongst fans? Maybe Jackson took that as a sign that the best way to make The Hobbit would be to make the Extended Editions first.

I don't think it will be Prequels-bad. But I get the impression that the Hobbit trilogy will ultimately be regarded that way when compared to LOTR.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: Film Series

redxavier, in Jackson's defense, he cites the breadth of the stories he's already telling in his statement about his decision to make it a trilogy:

We know how much of the story of Bilbo Baggins, the Wizard Gandalf, the Dwarves of Erebor, the rise of the Necromancer, and the Battle of Dol Guldur will remain untold if we do not take this chance.  The richness of the story of The Hobbit, as well as some of the related material in the appendices of The Lord of the Rings, allows us to tell the full story of the adventures of Bilbo Baggins and the part he played in the sometimes dangerous, but at all times exciting, history of Middle-earth.

Your mileage will vary considerably, of course.

Personally, I'm very interested by the fact that this decision is so last-minute, because it implies, to me, that Jackson and company were looking at the footage they had and thinking they had enough material to constitute three movies. I kind of like that idea, because it's been only recently that I've discovered what difference good editing can make in a film—contrast and compare the theatrical cut of Star Wars to the current DVD release, because that's what I did. 

But Jackson is in a unique position among the current trend of "let's split the film adaptation in half for no discernable reason!" because he has access to more story than he can possibly cram into a trilogy, even with just the appendices (whether or not he will use it, of course, remains to be seen). Ringer speculation before today's announcement was that a third film would be a "bridge" film, covering events between The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, and the production is pretty open about going beyond the story of the novel into the story of the universe. That sounds defensive, but I bring this up to differentiate this from the current slew of novel adaptations snapped in half: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Breaking Dawn, and Mockingjay. The big question here is not whether or not this is a huge marketing gimmick (which is a totally valid point; if you're a completionist Potter collection, you had to triple dip for that last film), but are audiences becoming more willing to watch longer and longer films?

Which dovetails with your question, Doctor Submarine. Yes, I definitely think the fact that the Extended Editions are so popular was an influence on Jackson, because he knows his audience will happily park their butts for well over two and a half hours and want more story. I've marathoned the extended trilogy before, which was both butt-numbing (fidgeting on a sofa for twelve hours) and dehydrating (we popped in the second disc of The Return of the King and just started weeping), and I was looking forward to marathoning it with The Hobbit before today's announcement. (I don't know if I can do six films in a day; surely, there must be some Star Wars brethen who have done this, it can't be terribly difficult.)

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Re: Film Series

He made marketable and admirable movies out of LOTR, which was at best all-over-the-place as a novel.
The Hobbit has a pretty tight narrative with several well defined arcs. Which is to say: the guy who sowed the seeds for the most epic DIF extravaganza of our times...

...has gotten a better writer for his prequel trilogy.

Color me optimistic.

(UTC-06:00) Central Time (US & Canada)

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Re: Film Series

I just don't think the story of The Hobbit is epic enough for three movies. I was pleasantly surprised that they'd decided split it into two films because it does have a strong travel-y bit and then later a strong dragon-y bit.

I don't know. Maybe in the middle Bilbo will fight Angelina Jolie as Gollum's mother.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: Film Series

The best film series, as with the best book series, didn't start out as series. One good story was told, did well, and then was continued. The creator may have had future plots in mind, and put in plot hooks that could be later played with, but the original tale was complete in its own right. This is the best way to do it... especially in film, where there's a good chance you in fact won't do well enough to get your sequel.

I write stories! With words!
http://www.asstr.org/~Invid_Fan/

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It's very easy to confuse backstory with story. The appendices of LOTR are appendices, they're not part of the story, they are there to add scope to the world and do not tie in with the narrative itself.

Personally, I don't want to see the Necromancer or Dol Guldur or anything of what Gandalf gets up to whilst Bilbo and the dwarves are on their adventure, because the function of those elements in the Hobbit was to serve to demonstrate that a wider world existed outside the immediate story. They're not fleshed out, indeed virtually nothing is known about them except the events themselves, because Tolkien intended them to be somewhat mysterious and to have readers a little enticed by the hints. Indeed, when I read the Hobbit I love the fact that Gandalf comes back to the group and reveals some other adventure has taken place.

As I've said before, for all its virtues Jackson's LOTR trilogy lacked subtlety and it looks like this is going to continue in his Hobbit since the little side mysteries are likely going to take centre stage. References to the "Battle of Dol Guldur" imply we'll see this and unless it's a flashback I see it getting a Helm's Deep treatment.
  How in middle-earth does that help tell the 'full adventures' of Bilbo Baggins?

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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Re: Film Series

Sure, rain on my parade.  wink

Gandalf 'needed' to disappear from the tale for a while so the company's number would drop to 13, and unlucky things could befall them. On the other hand, the backstory was the primary muse and obsession for Tolkein, so fleshing it out supports his vision, IMO.

We can probably also expect the little-people's story to be intermingled with a fabricated big-people story line. Will anyone give me odds that Bard, the human hero ex machina, has a love interest?

(UTC-06:00) Central Time (US & Canada)

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"There's still milk in the Lord of the Rings teat." The 3-movie Hobbit deal puts this MTV skit in a new light...

Ironic how the first comment is "See, Peter Jackson, unlike SOME DIRECTORS OUT THERE (coughh Bruckheimer coughh) know when to gracefully end a good thing and not just do it for the paycheck."

And then there's this...

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts … 2080136531

not long to go now...

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