Topic: David Gerrold's Star Wolf kickstarter

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/213 … -star-wolf

OK, this... well, it's the first real test. We had the Veronica Mars movie, and naturally funded Trey's Pink Five, but this is different. Why? Because... well, it's continuing. It's not a one shot, or an attempt to get studio backing. It's an independent production that expects fans to fund everything.

And I don't see it working.

The cost is one factor. Raising a half million dollars for each new episode is a bit much to expect. Star Trek New Voyages/Phase 2, the fan film group Gerrold has worked with, is years behind their episode production, and they only have to raise money to fund CGI for footage shot years ago. There's also the fact that, yes, this is not an investment. You pay your $50, get one download of the episode and a sticker, and that's it. All profit goes elsewhere. People are going to donate once, then wait for the much cheaper DVD release.

Speaking of cost, I am amused at their comment that you don't need to spend $1.5 million, that they can do it for $650,000 (of which, apparently, only $150,000 is on pre-production and one time pilot costs). Back in the day, JMS said an episode of Babylon 5 cost only $850,000 at a time when the newest Trek episode cost $1.6 million. Compared to the Babylon 5 number, this show doesn't sound all that cheap, given the advances in tech.

Thoughts?

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Re: David Gerrold's Star Wolf kickstarter

I wish Gerrold well. I own the complete Star Wolf book in one volume and it is an interesting story. I highly recommend reading it, if you can find it.

I think Gerrold is shoring up his base and trying to be more expansive in his vision.
Or maybe he is just testing the waters.

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Re: David Gerrold's Star Wolf kickstarter

There are certainly worse projects on kickstarter then a series by professional writer with directing experience (He did one of those New Voyages you mentioned) but they seem to be going against all popular crowdfunding advice.

conventional wisdom would suggest doing a campaign for either preproduction or the pilot first as they would have a much easier time raising the total amount with something like a trailer to show how the piece will look.

I don't really think it's fair to compare the guy who wrote that tribble episode with Zach Braff for jumping on the kick starter bandwagon. I'm not sure how much profit this is really likely to make

I'd love to see a new space opera series since theres nothing on TV and a lot of the other projects that have popped up seem to be retro like the Space Command project that raised over $200,000 last year.

Invid wrote:

Back in the day, JMS said an episode of Babylon 5 cost only $850,000 at a time when the newest Trek episode cost $1.6 million. Compared to the Babylon 5 number, this show doesn't sound all that cheap, given the advances in tech.

To be fair adjusting for inflation $850,000 in 1993 would come to over a 1 million today which is about the average Doctor Who episode budget.

What they don't mention (and fair enough) is whether or not they are hiring pro crew or using the New Voyages method of going with volunteers.

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Re: David Gerrold's Star Wolf kickstarter

It still looks like a 'fan project', I mean I'm not convinced the execution (acting especially) will be any different or better than the dozens of other low budget sci-fi shows we've seen which have been made for far, far less.  Despite all the money, it won't have the quality look of Firefly or anything we see on proper TV, it'll probably look like ARK (and yet cost a magnitude more) or feel like LOTR: Born of Hope (where acting/directing is cheap).

The Early CGI shots they show on the video are atrocious, to the extent that I'm wondering whether they are making an animated show? No matter how early, I can't imagine anyone thinking that those shots are acceptable for a live action show, when they don't even look good enough for an old computer game.

Oh, and much of the saving of B5 at the time was that they were set in one place (fewer sets) and used CGI rather than models.

Last edited by redxavier (2013-05-07 13:16:57)

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Re: David Gerrold's Star Wolf kickstarter

Seeing as how Gerrold has planed on doing a TV show since he left Star Trek and created a whole series bible for The Star Wolf. When the show didn't pan out he wrote books. Not sure how well they didn't seeing as how I didn't really know about until I got it for a gift.

And the CGI doesn't bother me as much so not sure if that's my unprofessional eye or if I just have watched too many fan films wink

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Re: David Gerrold's Star Wolf kickstarter

Well, if nothing else it serves as the counter-argument for "why don't they just do a Firefly kickstarter?"   

I'm not seeing a lot of promotion of this thing - which is critical to a successful KS - and their pitch doesn't  sell the idea the way it needs to be sold.  And sadly, even the guy who wrote The Trouble With Tribbles doesn't have the star power to pull in the kind of numbers they need by himself.   They should have gotten Takei, then they might have had a chance.

Yes, a Firefly KS would get more love than Star Wolf is getting, and would probably get to 650K (and more) without too much trouble.    Except 650K isn't enough to make an episode of Firefly - it'd have to be several million at least.  And even if they made that much (and probably could) that's still just ONE episode. 

TV shows work as a pipeline, one team is writing, another is shooting, another is doing the post in an assembly-line process, until they've ground out the 10 or 13 or 22 episodes in the season.  Funding one episode at a time, then starting all over again from scratch to make a second "episode" just isn't a viable process.   At the very least, you're looking at re-staffing every phase of the production with every episode, since there'll be months of downtime between each.

So even IF everybody wanted to come back and do Firefly and even IF Fox would let them try crowdfunding it, they'd need to pull together maybe 50 million or more to fund a 13-episode production run.  And I don't think even the mighty Firefly could pull in that much via Kickstarter.

At least Star Wolf didn't go for too low a number - 650K is a workable price to make an hour of something, if you're very careful and cut every corner you can find. It doesn't seem likely to happen, they're already pretty much dead in the water.   But that's probably better than asking for too small a number, hitting it, and then having to deliver on it.

Re: David Gerrold's Star Wolf kickstarter

Yeah, their pitch needed more star power.

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Re: David Gerrold's Star Wolf kickstarter

Back in the start of home video era, Japanese anime companies came up with a rather intriguing format, the "Original Animated Video". As first practiced, they'd release a standalone episode of a potential series, see how it sold, then do another with the money coming in funding it. You could see the increase in budgets as they went (or decrease, as the case may be). That worked because, one, the Japanese were willing to pay $60 for a thirty minute laserdisc, and two, because the studio had other projects. They would just switch their people between them as needed.

I honestly think Gerrold came out of his experience with Star Trek Phase II thinking, "Hey, it's not that hard!"

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Re: David Gerrold's Star Wolf kickstarter

I think Gerrold is hoping for a second chance. The networks dropped the option for his scripts and so he turned them in to books.
While I think his campaign needs more pizazz behind it, I do understand where Gerrold is coming from.

As anyone, besides me, read any of the books?

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Re: David Gerrold's Star Wolf kickstarter

fireproof78 wrote:

As anyone, besides me, read any of the books?

Nope. Any good?

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Re: David Gerrold's Star Wolf kickstarter

Faldor wrote:
fireproof78 wrote:

As anyone, besides me, read any of the books?

Nope. Any good?

It is definitely a book geared for harder science fiction fans because it does a lot of technical details, political maneuverings and histories of his world. It certainly uses different rules about space travel than Star Trek and so takes some time to build up the tech too.

I would say, for science fiction fans or military fiction fans, it is worth a read, maybe once or twice through. There are a lot of characters and interpersonal relationships play a bigger role than actual space combat.
I think the best way to describe it is a combination of BSG 2004, Frank Herbert's Dune and Star Trek.

I think that works...

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Re: David Gerrold's Star Wolf kickstarter

I've downloaded it  smile

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Re: David Gerrold's Star Wolf kickstarter

Faldor wrote:

I've downloaded it  smile

I look forward to your thoughts  smile

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Re: David Gerrold's Star Wolf kickstarter

well they made $88,746 which is about 600,000 short of their goal.

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Re: David Gerrold's Star Wolf kickstarter

Faldor wrote:

well they made $88,746 which is about 600,000 short of their goal.

I wonder what they will do now?
I seriously am curious now, and even though I support Gerrold in his endevour, I think it wasn't the best way to go about it.

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Re: David Gerrold's Star Wolf kickstarter

Faldor wrote:

well they made $88,746 which is about 600,000 short of their goal.

I wonder what they will do now?
I seriously am curious now, and even though I support Gerrold in his endevour, I think it wasn't the best way to go about it.

Anyway, anyone else, besides Faldor, pick up one of the books?

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Re: David Gerrold's Star Wolf kickstarter

They are sending out the pilot script pdf to anyone who joins their mailing list in the next day or so.

I think they really ballsed up the campaign, firstly by not trying to make only the $75,000 they needed for the pilot, having Leonard Nemoy support them and only telling their casting to people who had already donated.

It's easy to say this after the fact but it's what we were saying a month ago.

I'd heard of the series years ago when TrekToday did an article on the 'Blood and Fire' script Gerrold wrote for The Next Generation but it was this kickstarter campaign that actually got me reading it.

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Re: David Gerrold's Star Wolf kickstarter

Faldor wrote:

They are sending out the pilot script pdf to anyone who joins their mailing list in the next day or so.

I think they really ballsed up the campaign, firstly by not trying to make only the $75,000 they needed for the pilot, having Leonard Nemoy support them and only telling their casting to people who had already donated.

It's easy to say this after the fact but it's what we were saying a month ago.

I'd heard of the series years ago when TrekToday did an article on the 'Blood and Fire' script Gerrold wrote for The Next Generation but it was this kickstarter campaign that actually got me reading it.

Yeah, I did the email newsletter just out of curiosity.

I'm glad they got some star power behind them but surprised they didn't do more. Almost like it was a test Kickstarter.

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