• Trey
  • Trey
  • A Grizzled Old Dick With Stories To Tell
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-11-25
  • Posts: 1,756
  • User Karma: 720

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

SPOILER Show
Yeah, I'm not talking about shockers on the scale of the RW - but there were so many things they could have teased that suggest new directions and plotlines for the show next season.   

The show clearly will go in those directions - they've set up just about everything we've discussed in this thread, just didn't land any of them tonight.   That's their choice and I'm sure they agonized over every detail - but the early responses to the episode have a lot of folks saying "huh, not a lot happened this week".

Not that anything they did was bad - we know where Arya's headed next season, and they sowed the  seeds for the Lannister family troubles that are coming.  Sansa's starting to get devious, she's just not thinking big enough yet.    Thank god, they finally gave some resolution to the Theon storyline.    And we're all set for the Wildling battle at the Wall, where the Jon/Ygritte/Stannis stories will all pay off together.

But right until the very end - especially with all the track they laid toward it - I figured Bran and Pals would emerge north of the Wall - and run smack into a Walker.  Oh crap, roll credits.   Or - give it another thirty seconds and show us that THIS Walker is... benign?  After all the buildup of Walkers as the ultimate threat, that'd be a solid WTF to go out on.

Instead, we got Dany crowdsurfing - a pretty unsatisfying way to end the season.  She essentially won the city last week, this scene felt like filler.  We've seen this before, and dragons flying overhead and shrieking doesn't have the novelty it once did.

EDIT:   Also, the rest of the world has sort of forgotten about Dany - all season she's had very little connection to the rest of the plot.   Introducing the Ser-Jorah-is-a-spy reveal might have helped remind us why we're still even following her.

Trey's Website

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Montpellier, France
  • Registered: 2011-12-05
  • Posts: 1,141
  • User Karma: 497

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

I pretty much agree with everything said here. Underwhelming episode.

  Show
The dragon screech ending felt a bit ridiculous. They've done it with season 1, we get it. This time the dragons didn't even have any meaning in the scene. That's the only scene Dany had in the episode, and it really felt like filler.

I agree with Trey: why not use Jorah's banishment? Are they keeping it for later or did they completely drop it? Doesn't make much sense...

The choice to separate Jon Snow's escaping and his taking arrow in the leg and such was interesting. it's a nice way to end this particular arc - now their relationship is truly over and the only time he'll see Ygritte again is when she dies at Castle Black.

What are your thoughts on Daario? I'm not convinced. Where's the blue hair?!

I'm glad, though - they did the Robb/Wolf thing. It felt very, very wrong. smile

Season 4 is going to be so damn huge. So many things to cover.

Also, does anyone have any info on book 6's release date? Is it a when it's done thing or do we know whether it's to be released this year, next year or...?

Sébastien Fraud
Instagram |Facebook

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Gardena, California
  • Registered: 2009-11-26
  • Posts: 1,598
  • User Karma: 484

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

It is ever and always "when it's done."

Maybe if he didn't do his writing on a goddamn Speak & Spell it would go quicker, since he'd be able to review the writing as he goes and realize he'd already written the chapter he's about to write. Twice.

/annoyed by Dance with Dragons

Thumbs up +3 Thumbs down

  • bullet3
  • bullet3
  • I Know Regular Expressions
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2010-06-23
  • Posts: 1,350
  • User Karma: 204

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Still though I gotta feel a bit of sympathy for the guy. Like, now not only does he have millions of book-readers on his ass to finish these books, but millions of show-watchers, and corporate interests at HBO. Living under that kind of constant pressure would be awful.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • Trey
  • Trey
  • A Grizzled Old Dick With Stories To Tell
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-11-25
  • Posts: 1,756
  • User Karma: 720

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

When you write The Game of Thrones, you finish or you die.

Trey's Website

Thumbs up +1 Thumbs down

  • From: Montpellier, France
  • Registered: 2011-12-05
  • Posts: 1,141
  • User Karma: 497

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

http://i.imgur.com/4f0EIIl.gif

Sébastien Fraud
Instagram |Facebook

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • Trey
  • Trey
  • A Grizzled Old Dick With Stories To Tell
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-11-25
  • Posts: 1,756
  • User Karma: 720

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Ramsay Snow brings the crazy even better than Joffrey.   Gotta give 'em credit for casting that role perfectly. 

By the end of next season he'll likely have taken over the title of Most-Hated Character.

SPOILER Show
Of course by then Joffrey will be out of the running, but still...  wink

Trey's Website

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Scotland
  • Registered: 2010-01-19
  • Posts: 2,430
  • User Karma: 264

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

That dude is known over here for being in the show Misfits but (very) recently he was also seen in a sitcom starring alongside Sir Ian McKellan-

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: State of Idaho
  • Registered: 2010-12-08
  • Posts: 2,367
  • User Karma: 289

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Trey wrote:

When you write The Game of Thrones, you finish or you die.

Look how well that worked out for Robert Jordan and Wheel of Time...
http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s671/Erich_Longpre/martinandjordan_zpsaa6b6553.png

God loves you!

Thumbs up Thumbs down

85 Reply by Phi

  • Phi
  • Phi
  • Numbers Commissioner
  • Offline
  • From: Canada
  • Registered: 2010-06-09
  • Posts: 333
  • User Karma: 103

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)


Included for the sake of thread completeness

Thumbs up +1 Thumbs down

  • From: Kent, England
  • Registered: 2010-02-09
  • Posts: 1,327
  • User Karma: 146

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Saniss wrote:

Also, does anyone have any info on book 6's release date? Is it a when it's done thing or do we know whether it's to be released this year, next year or...?

I wouldn't expect to see Winds of Winter until late 2014/early 2015 at the earliest. It certainly won't be done this year and will take up most of next. ADWD only came out 2 years ago, and GRRM apparently didn't start writing again until 2012.

As we're in the book thread, has anyone read or listened to the Tales of Dunk and Egg novellas? There have been three so far - The Hedge Knight, The Sworn Sword, and the Mystery Knight. Set about hundred years before the events of AGOT, it tells the story of a lowly knight called Duncan who travels around Westeros with a young squire. The first two stories have also been adapted into comic books. Worth giving them a shot, especially if you're looking to get your GRRM fix in between the books.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Montpellier, France
  • Registered: 2011-12-05
  • Posts: 1,141
  • User Karma: 497

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

I didn't know about these. Could be interesting if it provides more material on the universe and its history.

Sébastien Fraud
Instagram |Facebook

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Kent, England
  • Registered: 2010-02-09
  • Posts: 1,327
  • User Karma: 146

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Dorkman wrote:

...and realize he'd already written the chapter he's about to write. Twice.

You joke, but I found this report about two of the 'side projects' he's been working on recently, which states that for "The World of Ice and Fire" (also delayed significantly), GRRM wrote 250,000 words instead of the supposed 50,000 words, and for the short story "The Princess and the Queen", he submitted 80,000 words, which was subsequently edited down to 30,000.
http://towerofthehand.com/blog/2013/05/ … index.html

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Gardena, California
  • Registered: 2009-11-26
  • Posts: 1,598
  • User Karma: 484

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

redxavier wrote:
Dorkman wrote:

...and realize he'd already written the chapter he's about to write. Twice.

You joke

I wasn't, entirely. I found the latest book (the latest two, even) extremely aggravating in their repetition.

When the story advances, it's still good stuff. But you have to wade through five chapters of Brienne being mistaken for a man and moping about it, and six of Tyrion asking himself where whores go, before you get there.

Last edited by Dorkman (2013-06-11 20:50:34)

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Montpellier, France
  • Registered: 2011-12-05
  • Posts: 1,141
  • User Karma: 497

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

I didn't mind it. I guess it's a writing style that fits his ideology behind ASoIaF. This isn't heroic fantasy; epic stuff doesn't happen all the time, and the rest is pretty dull.

Of course, I may be wrong, and in any case, it won't help readers keep hooked. But personally? I dig it.

Sébastien Fraud
Instagram |Facebook

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • Spork
  • Only does things when nobody is looking.
  • Offline
  • From: Oregon
  • Registered: 2012-01-16
  • Posts: 48
  • User Karma: 16

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Trey wrote:
Doctor Submarine wrote:
Trey wrote:

Ummmm.....

...Did I imagine that part? I swear I remember that happening.

She thinks about it, but ultimately doesn't do the deed.   Probably because that's even more cruel.    Ever since, the question of whether the Hound is dead or alive has been uncertain. 

So like Phi says, he's probably alive (or alive-ish) and will show up again at some point.

I'm a little late to the party on this one, but no one else seems to have mentioned the theory that Sandor Clegane is alive and well as the gravedigger on the Quiet Isle.

First off, the Elder brother tells the story of his own "death" showing that he probably isn't using it in the literal sense when he tells Brienne and Pod of the Hounds "death". He also NEVER refers to Sandor dying, only "The Hound", again showing that Sandor likely had a more metaphorical death and rebirth. The Gravedigger is also described as very tall with a lame leg, the same leg that the Hound had wounded. There are a few other potential clues, such as the Elder Brother being an extremely gifted healer (the Hound was near death, after all), the Hound's horse is in the stables at the Quiet Isle (a horse known for being extremely uncooperative with anyone besides his master), and the Gravedigger being friendly to a dog (I'll admit that one is reaching).

"To Spork you listen."  - Trey Stokes

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Swarthmore, PA
  • Registered: 2012-06-07
  • Posts: 204
  • User Karma: 35

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

redxavier wrote:

I wouldn't expect to see Winds of Winter until late 2014/early 2015 at the earliest. It certainly won't be done this year and will take up most of next. ADWD only came out 2 years ago, and GRRM apparently didn't start writing again until 2012.

There were six years between Books 4 and 5, and that was before Germ was busy writing for the show and doing Dunk and Egg. I think he's also got a new television show in the works? I'm placing my money on 2017/2018 at the earliest.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Farmington, CT
  • Registered: 2010-05-08
  • Posts: 2,451
  • User Karma: 317

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Allison wrote:
redxavier wrote:

I wouldn't expect to see Winds of Winter until late 2014/early 2015 at the earliest. It certainly won't be done this year and will take up most of next. ADWD only came out 2 years ago, and GRRM apparently didn't start writing again until 2012.

There were six years between Books 4 and 5, and that was before Germ was busy writing for the show and doing Dunk and Egg. I think he's also got a new television show in the works? I'm placing my money on 2017/2018 at the earliest.

With the TV show hot on his heels, I think that 2016/2017 is a good estimate. Any later and the show will overtake the books, and there's no way he'll let that happen if he can help it.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Swarthmore, PA
  • Registered: 2012-06-07
  • Posts: 204
  • User Karma: 35

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Doctor Submarine wrote:
Allison wrote:
redxavier wrote:

I wouldn't expect to see Winds of Winter until late 2014/early 2015 at the earliest. It certainly won't be done this year and will take up most of next. ADWD only came out 2 years ago, and GRRM apparently didn't start writing again until 2012.

There were six years between Books 4 and 5, and that was before Germ was busy writing for the show and doing Dunk and Egg. I think he's also got a new television show in the works? I'm placing my money on 2017/2018 at the earliest.

With the TV show hot on his heels, I think that 2016/2017 is a good estimate. Any later and the show will overtake the books, and there's no way he'll let that happen if he can help it.

Fair point. If they continue 2 seasons for each book, 2016/2017 will be perfect timing. But that doesn't leave much time for A Dream of Spring...

Thumbs up Thumbs down

95 Reply by Phi

  • Phi
  • Phi
  • Numbers Commissioner
  • Offline
  • From: Canada
  • Registered: 2010-06-09
  • Posts: 333
  • User Karma: 103

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Well he's given a rough outline of the remaining plot to the show producers, so the show could just roll on past the books and the books catch up later. See also: If he dies. He almost seems more concerned about finishing the TV series than the book series.

I also can't see them doing two TV seasons per book for books 4 and 5. I assume they'll mix the plotlines together, but at most you'd get two or three seasons out of the two books. Noooooothing haaaaappens for looooooong stretches.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Kent, England
  • Registered: 2010-02-09
  • Posts: 1,327
  • User Karma: 146

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

I am perhaps being a touch harsh here, but I suspect that HBO/D&B would not have picked up the show had they read books 4 and 5. The storyline in those just isn't as adaptable to TV. You couldn't really have an entire season treading water, let alone one and a half (the latter half of ADWD does pick up the pace). It's one thing to create a blockbuster show and have it run out of steam 3-4 series in because you hadn't planned that far ahead at first, quite another to go that way deliberately.

I have confidence, though, that D&B can make AFFC and ADWD work. As you say, Phi, by mixing the plotlines/POVs together into chronological order, trimming away some of the detail (Brienne's torturously plodding journey especially), you could get a season out of each.

I've always wanted to try that too, editing together the books into order (GRRM jokily suggests to do this in his infamous Afterword) and seeing how they read. Granted, I think the narrative 'theme' of each would come undone, but perhaps it would be more fun to read?

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Swarthmore, PA
  • Registered: 2012-06-07
  • Posts: 204
  • User Karma: 35

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Sean T Collins over at All Leather Must Be Boiled has done a wonderful combined reading order. There is one that is spoiler free, and one that is not. I'm definitely going to do it when I get to that part of my re read.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Iceland
  • Registered: 2011-12-05
  • Posts: 642
  • User Karma: 230

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

The Red Viper has been cast.

Prince Prince Oberyn Martell will be played by...

---------------------------------------------
I would never lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation.

AshDigital's Website

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Montpellier, France
  • Registered: 2011-12-05
  • Posts: 1,141
  • User Karma: 497

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Interesting. I generally trust them as far as the casting goes (except for Daario; I don't like how they made him look in the show).

Sébastien Fraud
Instagram |Facebook

Thumbs up Thumbs down

  • From: Farmington, CT
  • Registered: 2010-05-08
  • Posts: 2,451
  • User Karma: 317

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

He looks so awkward in that picture. I bet he can pull it off though.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

Thumbs up Thumbs down