Topic: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

The claim that 'they can do anything these days' is not quite true.

Quick question - what are still the hardest things left to do in VFX?

Over the last decade, we've seen dramatic improvements in compositing, tracking, sub-surface scattering, photo-real CG character shading, fire & water sims, particle effects, Massive's vast armies etc. Every few months there's some new plug-in.

I nominate two frontiers that VFX houses still have trouble with:

1. Making actors look dramatically younger. We've had brief scenes in X-Men 3 / Last Stand, Benjamin Button, and Tron Legacy, all to varying degrees of success and in all cases, quite stiff (i.e. actors and cameras have to be still). You certainly couldn't do an extended normal action scene like that (it'd be prohibitively expensive). It's not just rotoscoping away winkles, but the entire facial shape changes with age.

2. Low-gravity environments. Apollo 13 and especially Gravity did excellent work with simulating zero-G, but I can't recall any movie successfully doing a sustained low-gravity sequence. Any time anyone goes to Mars, it's just 1:1 Earth Gravity, whereas it should be one-third.

Any other fields that are still beyond the capability of 2013/14 effects? What's left to see?

not long to go now...

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Re: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

CG humans being truly photoreal consistently, even in one movie.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

I think avatar's #1 fits into the broader category of Teague's answer, really.

As for the low gravity thing, it has been done.  From The Earth To The Moon did it by hanging the actors from helium balloons. It can also be done with a wire rig - basically any rig that can make a human appear to fly by supporting all their weight can be used to support some of their weight instead. 

It's just rarely done for entire movies because it would require so much on-set rigging and post-production rig removal.

Re: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

CG fire still doesn't quite work for me. It was the only flaw in Gravity's VFX that I noticed.

Last edited by Abbie (2013-12-26 21:06:02)

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Re: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

avatar wrote:

What's left to see?

Restraint.

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Re: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

http://i.imgur.com/mRTZc7f.gif


(replace "moment" with "post" for better context)

Last edited by Saniss (2013-12-26 22:28:42)

Sébastien Fraud
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Re: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

Dorkman wrote:
avatar wrote:

What's left to see?

Restraint.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Jon-Stewart-saying-Oh-Snap.gif

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

http://www.pinkfive.com/images/post/high5.gif

Re: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

I concur with Dorkman, I would add more realistic CG camera moves.  The stuff they do nowadays is physically impossible in some regards.

Last edited by switch (2013-12-27 01:00:13)

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Re: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

Dorkman wrote:
avatar wrote:

What's left to see?

Restraint.

Nolan is one that doesn't overdo the CG or VFX, so there's restraint there. Can't think of too many others. My favourite use of CG is wire/rig removal.

not long to go now...

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Re: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

^^ Agreed. This allows for the best of both worlds, where you get amazing real stunt-work, but it's still a step above what you'd see in a movie made 20 years ago. Stuff like the train sequence in Skyfall, where they actually have shots with craig running along the top of that train (with wires removed in post), or the dubai sequence in Ghost Protocol, or the recent Van Damme splits commercial.

The other favorite I like is successful face replacement, so you can have stuntmen doing crazy stunts for real and then replace with the real actor when necessary.

I think those 2 can greatly free a filmmaker in terms of how they can film a sequence, without losing the tactile reality that makes real stuntwork truly exciting.

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Re: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

And I think restraint extends even to all-CG films. I watched Monsters University today and enjoyed it, but like Tintin, many of the sets (especially exteriors) are so realistic that they could work in a live action film. In MU, it works fine altho it's pointless, but in Tintin, the characters in that world seems to be humans wearing giant fake heads. There's something to be said for cartoonishness in animated features.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

Ehh.....I sorta agree, but not entirely. My favorite part of Tin-Tin is the crazy 1-take chase sequence, because it lets Spielberg have fun with the freedom of a virtual camera. If you're making an animated movie anyway, there's some merit in taking advantage of the possibilities of the format (assuming the choices fit the type of movie you're making, which in the case of Tin-Tin, a goofy light-hearted adventure story, is the case).

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Re: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

Zarban wrote:

it works fine altho it's pointless


http://media.tumblr.com/7dcab350dfd9b18035a15086d323b2a2/tumblr_inline_mwbyv9CC6r1raj8mk.gif

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

Squiggly_P wrote:

I think he means that it's a cartoon, and the characters are obviously cartoony, so there's no point in trying to make the backgrounds look hyper realistic.

Exactly.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

EDIT:

Nevermind, I should not be arguing anyone right now.

But both of you please answer me something. Do you inherently think it's impossible for a photoreallistically rendered cartoon character/enviroment to work?

Last edited by BigDamnArtist (2013-12-28 04:22:57)

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

I imagine it'd be a little freaky. I like the happy medium Pixar has been going for (and, IMO, accomplished with Monsters U) where they're sub-surface "fake material" characters and ambient occlusion, with increasingly pretty lighting.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

Zarban wrote:
Squiggly_P wrote:

I think he means that it's a cartoon, and the characters are obviously cartoony, so there's no point in trying to make the backgrounds look hyper realistic.

Exactly.

http://www.blastr.com/sites/blastr/files/roger-rabbit.jpg

Re: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

Let's discuss The Adventures of Tintin
http://thesignalexpress.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/tintin.png

http://cdn.blu-raydefinition.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Adventures_of_Tintin_01.jpg

Last edited by Dave (2013-12-28 07:46:59)

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Re: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

I like Adventures of Tintin quite a bit, and think it looks awesome.

Come at me bro.

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Re: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

I am a huge fan, both of the graphic novels and the magnificent 2011 film.

Returning to the earlier posts about it, I'm not sure there's anything specific I could mention that didn't work - given the familiarity with the source material. I never felt it hit the "uncanny valley" with the characters - rather sailed right over and on to the other side.

Last edited by Dave (2013-12-28 07:55:10)

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Re: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

I haven't seen Tintin yet, so can't comment, but those pictures are really pretty. I really should get around to it, it's on Netflix I think.

Teague wrote:

I imagine it'd be a little freaky. I like the happy medium Pixar has been going for (and, IMO, accomplished with Monsters U) where they're sub-surface "fake material" characters and ambient occlusion, with increasingly pretty lighting.

I guess it must just boil down to me liking slightly freaky looking animated movies. Because yes, I too imagine it to be kinda freaky looking, but for me that's the point, not a lynchpin downside.

Because I think:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-RXd8dkTTHHY/TlK6ULnurnI/AAAAAAAACos/x9WC8jaWsEk/s1600/4.jpg
http://www.filmofilia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/rango_17.jpg

is absolutely fantastic looking.

Pixars stuff is fine, but I've said it before, it's be nice if there was something else out there other than subsurf playdough skin with pretty lighting. Every single animated movie these days has the exact same look and design basically. But anyways, that's an argument for another day, that I've made before.

Last edited by BigDamnArtist (2013-12-28 08:02:20)

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

Agreed - The Astrology Boy abortion looked like a Pixar film for crying out loud. Everyone has a copy of Renderman.

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Re: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

Squiggly_P wrote:

Why couldn't they have made that Tin Tin movie live-action? I guess a better question is: If you're going to try to make everything in a cartoon look realistic, why not just make a live-action film?

That's a question you should always ask, and it goes both ways. Too many things are done live action that would work better animated. There is no reason, nowadays, for live action to be the default way to do a film.

With regard to Tin Tin, you're adapting a story that already exists as drawings on very detailed backgrounds. It certainly makes more sense to do an animated movie than to take it into live action, and since the original was known for detailed backgrounds one can understand trying to do that in the film. Perhaps photo-realistic wasn't the right way to go, but it's a choice.

I write stories! With words!
http://www.asstr.org/~Invid_Fan/

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Re: VFX - The Final Frontier. What's left?

I think they made the right call. The movie has intentionally kind of over-the-top cartoony action, which works because it's animated and lets Spielberg have a lot of fun with those sequences. If it was live-action it would remind us of the worst parts of Kingdom of the Crystal Skull and Hobbit and feel out of place. Also that dog would not work in live-action.

I have no problem with heightened and somewhat cartoony action if it's in an animated movie.

Last edited by bullet3 (2013-12-28 21:23:45)

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