Topic: Theoretical Silmarillion Movie

So now that the fantastic LOTR trilogy and...the other trilogy...are both done, I'm thinking about the Silmarillion.
Mainly I'm just confused why people keep saying the silmarillion is simply not movie material.
I beg to differ. While obviously the ENTIRETY could not be made as a movie, there are a number of parts in the book where the narrative zooms way in and focuses on a single story for a significant period of time. I'll put one below along with my thoughts.

Beren and Luthien
This would make an excellent story for one or two (NOT THREE) films.
It has Beren's homeland being taken by orcs, his father and him being in a band of fugitive fighters for the first act.
His father and the others are betrayed by the guy who was promised his wife in return (by a much more involved Sauron), Beren fights alone, and then finds his way through the terrors of the Nan Dungortheb (excellent horror material) and into the Girdle of Melian, where he meets Luthien. Quite possibly the movie could start with him finding out his father is dead, and the other stuff is backstory.
Luthien returns to him, they fall in love, and then (oh no!) that stupid singer-elf tells Luthien's father Thingol, and Beren is captured and then given the quest of the silmarils to gain Luthien's hand.
END ACT ONE

Second act is him heading off alone to nargothrond, gaining friends there (along with all the fantastic intrigue) heading north and being captured by sauron.
The werewolf eating his companions one by one until his friend (forgot his name) fights it to death.
Then beren is alone in the dungeon when Luthien and Huon come to rescue him, showing what badasses they are by DEFEATING SAURON.
Then beren and luthien take a break in the wilderness, and then Beren stupidly thinking he needs to try getting the silmarils alone.
Beren gets deep into enemy territory alone, and then Luthian and Huon come to help him again in disguise.
Then the three of them head to Morgoth's lair, and luthien again outsmarts the evil dark lord, they get the silmarils, beren gets his hand bitten off by Carcharoth the Wolf (easily the coolest name ever). END ACT TWO

They escape, but Carcharoth goes on a rampage with the silmaril and Beren's hand inside him, and when Buthien (their celebrity name) gets back to menegroth, Thingol, Beren, Huon, and others finish off the movie by killing Carcharoth in an epic Hound-Hunter-Wolf battle to end the film.

Now maybe you could get into the whole Beren dies, and Luthien dies, and then sings to Mandos and gets Beren back, but that might be unnecessary (like the Scouring of the Shire). Love has already proven its worth at this point.

Of course, the tale of Turin would make an awesome tragedy, especially if contrasted with Tuor's adventures as well.

My point is, while the whole silmarillion would better serve as a setting than a story, there are several potentially AWESOME movies within the framework.

Any thoughts? Feelings? Rage?

Last edited by Writhyn (2015-02-12 16:32:14)

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Re: Theoretical Silmarillion Movie

Whether or not it would work is rather academic at this point, anyway, as iirc the Tolkien estate has made it quite clear that there will be no more adaptations of his material as long as they have a say in the matter.

I agree that, while adapting the whole thing would be death, individual stories could work. For example, portions of it were adapted into Blind Guardian's Nightfall in Middle-earth , which works brilliantly.

Last edited by Abbie (2015-02-12 18:24:55)

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Re: Theoretical Silmarillion Movie

Withryn wrote:

Mainly I'm just confused why people keep saying the silmarillion is simply not movie material.

Darth Praxus wrote:

I agree that, while adapting the whole thing would be death...

This is exactly why. You say "We're going to adapt the Silmarillon", which is roughly akin to saying we're going to make a movie out the encyclopedia. And most people (myself included) have never actually bothered to read the Silmarillon, cause...my gods... so it's just a giant lump of encyclopedia text to them.

Also that thing Prax said about the Tolkein Estate, as far as I know that's still true. Could change in the future, who knows, probably not for a long time though.

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: Theoretical Silmarillion Movie

What about adapting it into a TV series, with each season being a different story from The Silmarillion?

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Re: Theoretical Silmarillion Movie

BigDamnArtist wrote:
Withryn wrote:

Mainly I'm just confused why people keep saying the silmarillion is simply not movie material.

Darth Praxus wrote:

I agree that, while adapting the whole thing would be death...

This is exactly why. You say "We're going to adapt the Silmarillon", which is roughly akin to saying we're going to make a movie out the encyclopedia. And most people (myself included) have never actually bothered to read the Silmarillon, cause...my gods... so it's just a giant lump of encyclopedia text to them.

Also that thing Prax said about the Tolkein Estate, as far as I know that's still true. Could change in the future, who knows, probably not for a long time though.

Got to back up BDA here in that, in my time on theonering.net forums, it is well known that Christopher Tolkien has no love for film adaptations, and the idea of the Similarion being adapted is not likely to go well.

I would be supportive of a retelling of Beren and Luthien, but I just don't see it happening without a similar living in a shadow of LOTR as the Hobbit (no, this is not a discussion of that film series).

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Re: Theoretical Silmarillion Movie

Every Middle Earth adaptation (even the shitty ones) makes around a billion, so it'll be a test of the Tolkien Estate's principles when Warner Bros offer them a shipping container of cash just to think about it...

http://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2012/01/money_mini.jpg

not long to go now...

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Re: Theoretical Silmarillion Movie

That interior designer has terrible taste. What an awful lamp.

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Re: Theoretical Silmarillion Movie

When Chris Tolkien passes, I agree it will be a test. Until then, with the disagreement over LOTR, and the frustration with the Hobbit, I don't see him bending to any dollar amount.

My overall feeling on this idea is this-Hollywood is going to tap every idea for every cent it is worth, and LOTR is not completely tapped (yet).  So, the Sil will be developed in some capacity-how much, who knows?

Personally, it will be interesting, because the fan base is becoming increasingly restless over the Hobbit treatment, with many more book purists (regardless of movie quality opinion) getting annoyed by liberties taken. Will it make money? Sure, but even people thought the Hobbit was bad, then the Sil will probably be worse. I mean, it could get very confusing for casual fans, and even more irritating for book fans who want all the details.

It honestly would be like if Lucas had made Star Wars, then the Prequels, and then did a movie based upon the origination of the Jedi and Sith. Its detail, history driven tome, that may become inaccessible. I have dubbed this phenomenon "The Dune Syndrome."

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Re: Theoretical Silmarillion Movie

Human psychology is such that over time we remember the good stuff more than the bad stuff.

Hence all the excitement over Episode 7, even when there's no objective rational reason that it'll be any good (Hollywood's poor track record of resurrecting long dead franchises, JJ's last movie: Into Darkness, expectations dialled way too high, endless chasing and punching action scenes, over-CG everything, the bland PG-13 tone that pervades every tentpole these days).

So once the bitter taste of the Hobbit fades with time, the appetite for more Middle Earth will build up again, either as a prequel trilogy, spin-off movies, original-idea sequels, or a Game of Thrones-esque TV series.

not long to go now...

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Re: Theoretical Silmarillion Movie

I agree that it will fade, I just don't think it will fade enough while Chris Tolkien is alive. He was a notorious stickler for details, even with his own father, so it isn't like Jackson is experiencing special treatment.

As for Episode 7, I think I'm hitting Trey and the Avengers level of advertisement burnout with Episode 7. I think Abrams will do a fine job, because it is his one chance at a beloved franchise, and Abrams isn't the only one pulling the strings on it. But, I really just don't need to hear any more about it, but thankfully Sci fi Now magazine did a full cover story of the details of the trailer. So, I don't need to see the film  hmm

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Re: Theoretical Silmarillion Movie

I'm probably infamous at this point for pitching this to almost all large source material, but should they ever adapt the Silmarillion, I'm guessing a TV show would be the best fit.

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Re: Theoretical Silmarillion Movie

fireproof78 wrote:

As for Episode 7, I think I'm hitting Trey and the Avengers level of advertisement burnout with Episode 7.

Last time I checked, there's been a grand total of one trailer and no other advertising whatsoever. Unless you count every single garbage film "news" site covering every time JJ Abrams sneezes in case there's a clue.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: Theoretical Silmarillion Movie

You could make a whole movies out of single pages of the Silmarillion (So please don't tell Peter Jackson I said that)

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Re: Theoretical Silmarillion Movie

Doctor Submarine wrote:
fireproof78 wrote:

As for Episode 7, I think I'm hitting Trey and the Avengers level of advertisement burnout with Episode 7.

Last time I checked, there's been a grand total of one trailer and no other advertising whatsoever. Unless you count every single garbage film "news" site covering every time JJ Abrams sneezes in case there's a clue.

Yep. One trailer. And yet, all the film magazines I have been reading feature a news article detailing it to one degree or another. I'll amend my statement that it isn't the advertisement so much as the furor over every aspect of that trailer.

Yes, I will watch Star Wars VII. Now, where did I put that Deus Ex gif with the guy with the gun. That seems appropriate for my reaction here.

Also, I concur with Tom on the TV show adaptation. Like I said earlier, I think Beren and Luthien would be good film but I think that the rest is too much lore for the general audience.

Last edited by fireproof78 (2015-02-15 06:30:19)

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Re: Theoretical Silmarillion Movie

I'm sorry Fire...but you're saying the internet went full steam on the hype train for a new Star Wars trailer?

I...frankly...am shocked.

Also why I actively avoid those sorts of sites as much as humanly possible. I'm hyped enough already, I don't need the internet killing it for me.

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: Theoretical Silmarillion Movie

This has nothing to do with the Internet, in all honesty.

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Re: Theoretical Silmarillion Movie

Then I have no idea what to say. I haven't seen anything out in the real world that could even be close to what you're describing (other than the couple people I know who are psyched about Star Wars, and love to argue).

So... *shrug*.

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: Theoretical Silmarillion Movie

No big deal. Just, and I'm amazed to say this, a little too much Star Wars for me.

Any way, back to the Sil smile

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