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Fair enough.  I am a tad reflexive about it because it gets a lot of hate.  But I would argue that I don't feel the pace is slow as it is deliberate.

Eddie Doty

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I love Leone, but I wasn't taken by Once Upon a Time in America. However, I also just kind of caught it part-way in on cable. However however, I also first encountered The Godfather that way, and it was mesmerizing. The Godfather is easily one of the greatest films ever made. Godfather II is terrific, but I don't quite get people who think it's better than the first.

I'll note that there are a handful of fan commentaries for Godfather, Godfather II, Wizard of Oz, and Casablanca, but zero commentaries for Citizen Kane. It's slow, methodical, character-based, and narratively complex but emotionally simple. It's ingeniously shot, and as a result is mainly beloved by directors and cinematographers, not film lovers. Wells and most reviewers prefer The Magnificent Ambersons. I like much of Wells' other work better.

In short, if DIF does it, very tough to do well.

Now, Apocalypse Now also has zero commentaries, and is nearly the opposite of Kane. It's methodical but not slow, episode-based, and narratively simple but emotionally complex. Plus, it has explosions and helicopters and other crazy shit.

In short, that's a win-win, regardless of your opinion of it.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

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I do in fact prefer Magnificent Ambersons as well, but I don't sleep on Kane at all.  I don't think you can deny it's influence, but Ambersons has a more interesting story to tell, and all things being equal, I gravitate to story.  Apocalypse Now is one of my all time favorites and I have no idea how we would comment on it or Kane. 

What I would say is that often our best commentaries are not ones where we unleash never before heard trade secrets, but give our own unique perspectives on films in a context of our places in the industry, as film lovers, and at this moment in time.  In short, I think people respond to how these movies are personalized by the cast.  I think when it comes to so-called classics, we shouldn't try to parrot the dialogue of film critics past, but add a contemparay take on why these films are still relevant (or not) to the DiF crew, and why they should be relevant (or not) to you, the audience.

Eddie Doty

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Yes. Altho I respectfully submit that there is little danger of DIF parroting the dialog of film critics past.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: Suggest a movie!

Oh hey, The Social Network is out on DVD. Y'know, just saying.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Also, I don't mean "slow" as a pejorative here, but "deliberate" is probably the better word. Most films pre-1970 moved pretty slowly except screwball comedies and good westerns, and you and I love them.

In Psycho (1960), it takes an hour for the first kill, another 20 minutes or so for the second, and another 15 minutes or so for the climax. And what happens in between? Talk, and a lot of it by characters we don't much care about. There are zero chases, zero fights, and almost zero melodramatic revelations. Whatever it is, it's not "fast-paced." But is it boring? Hell no.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

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People say 'slow' to mean 'boring' but it's 2 different things. Chinatown's a pretty slow-paced movie by today's standards but it's not boring. You have to be into the story.

Movie suggestion: how about Hannibal? Other than the Juliann Moore character being kind of a bitch (no wonder Jodie Foster turned it down) it's a great looking, well acted (Giancarlo Giannini's amazing, i can't believe it's the same guy who played the emperor in Frank Herbert's Dune around the same time) movie. And that dinner scene is crazy crazy.

Last edited by beldar (2011-01-12 09:57:16)

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Crazy thought, but have you guys considered doing any of the Bond films?

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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I think that's the firs time that's come up.

Eddie Doty

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Bond would be great, but it's such a can of worms.  There have been how many "Bonds" and how many directors?  I'm all for it, but short of doing all of them, choosing one would be a challenge.

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I think maybe one per "era" would do, spread out over a year or three. I say era rather then actor because probably two Roger Moore films should be done, an early "serious" title then one one of the later more wacky movies for contrast smile Actually, maybe just do the Jaws miniseries...

While I'm here, having just re-listened to Sixth Sense, I'll put forward a suggestion you guys do the original The Haunting for next Halloween. Another great film that works on two levels.
(I love the story the director tells of going to the author before they started and asking, "We THINK we understand your book... it's all in her mind, right?" To which the author responded, "No, it's real, but that's a GREAT idea!")

I write stories! With words!
http://www.asstr.org/~Invid_Fan/

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I love the Bond series substantially more than it deserves. If DIF wants to sample it, I suggest...

  • Dr. No because it's the first

  • Goldfinger because it's one of the best

  • You Only Live Twice because it has the hallowed out volcano

  • The Spy Who Loved Me because it's one of the best

  • Goldeneye because it's the best in a long time

  • Casino Royale because it's a good reboot

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: Suggest a movie!

You know, Zarban, those would have been my exact picks as well. I don't think the crew need to do all 22 movies but a sampling of the above would allow for discussion of most of the other movies.

YOLT and TSWLM are also great companion pieces, being essentially the same plot (villian tries to make US and USSR go to war by capturing their capsules/subs) but being wildly different in tone and themes. The first is all 'You only live twice Mr Bond' whilst stroking a cat, whilst the latter is all 'The things I do for England' now watch me escape with my union fucking jack flag parachute.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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You have to do one of the campy ones too, though, like Moonraker. Can't just touch on the high points.

I write stories! With words!
http://www.asstr.org/~Invid_Fan/

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I know I'll get flamed for this (I know Zarban doesn't like it much) but I really enjoy Live and Let Die. It's one of my favourites. big_smile

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Moonraker stands as an example of one of the very worst Bond films, it could use a good thrashing.   

As someone who lived it in realtime, The Spy Who Loved Me was mind-blowingly awesome at the time, and at the end it said (as all Bond films did in those days) "James Bond will return in... For Your Eyes Only".   

But a year later Star Wars debuted, and the next Bond film became Moonraker because that justified them doing an outer-spacey story.  And badly.    The fx aren't bad, but wow, that ending with Bond and Lois Chiles sitting placidly in a shuttle cockpit while she shoots a laser at satellites is the least exciting climax to a Bond movie EVAR.

But I give the makers credit because they learned from that mistake and the movie after THAT was For Your Eyes Only, which is one of my faves.   Instead of trying to do an even-bigger-blockbuster-epic-than-last-time, they downsized the whole thing, focused on small-scale but great action scenes, and most interestingly started to mess around with the Bond "formula".

In FYEO, Bond drives TWO Lotuses, but doesn't get into a car chase in either one.  Instead he ends up in a car chase in a little tinfoil econo-car and he isn't even driving it.  And it's one of the best Bond car chases in the series.    Also, a gorgeous young girl throws herself at him and he turns her down.   And so on.    It's a fun film that also has fun tweaking the whole "Bond" thing without becoming parody.

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I was always partial to On Her Majesty's Secret Service.  George Lazenby is way better than people remember, and the ending was shocking for the time.  Solid forgotten film.

Eddie Doty

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Oh, agreed about OHMSS, another of my faves.   Diana Rigg, mmmmmm.   She's the only Avenger _I_ give a damn about.  smile

Also, George Lazenby - I still dunno if it's really him, but I hope so - is a wonderfully demented Twitterer, well worth following.

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Well, I'd chip in with 'Licence to Kill', which is actually a pretty solid spy thriller, spoiled only by the need to have signature Bond paraphernalia like gadgets, and babes, and villains with sharks.

Meanwhile, from a parallel universe, don't forget the incredible performance that Irvin Kershner got out of Sean Connery's hairpiece in 'Never Say Never Again'.

Most importantly, if you can answer the question of why James Bond, Jason Bourne and Jack Bauer all have the same initials, I'd be the least bit surprised.

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Shifty Bench wrote:

I know I'll get flamed for this (I know Zarban doesn't like it much) but I really enjoy Live and Let Die. It's one of my favourites. big_smile

Yeah. I thought I liked that one until I watched it again recently and realized it was really pseudo-blaxploitation. Not much worked for me but Jane Seymour and the 7-Up guy.

Trey wrote:

As someone who lived it in realtime, The Spy Who Loved Me was mind-blowingly awesome at the time

My little 11-year-old head could not contain the awesomeness. This is the film that had me going home and retelling the entire story to my mother at her bedroom door. Way better than The Incredible Melting Man, and way, way better than Grizzly.

Trey wrote:

But a year later Star Wars debuted, and the next Bond film became Moonraker because that justified them doing an outer-spacey story.  And badly.

Moonraker was a joke. It literally felt like we were being kidded. As a child I thought it was dumb.

Trey wrote:

and the movie after THAT was For Your Eyes Only, which is one of my faves. Also, a gorgeous young girl throws herself at him and he turns her down.

But Lynn-Holly Johnson was about 22 playing about 18, and Roger Moore was 3 years older than Sean Connery—but I WASN'T. Suddenly, the reality of an aging Bond became unbearable. And Lois "Moneypenny is starting to resemble a drag queen" Maxwell wasn't helping any.

Astroninja Studios wrote:

I was always partial to On Her Majesty's Secret Service.  George Lazenby is way better than people remember, and the ending was shocking for the time.  Solid forgotten film.

Lazenby was great, and the tone is marvelous and really puts character into Bond. But the plot is ridiculous. And the ending is a gratuitous punch in the groin.

They might as well have had Bond miraculously grow a third arm and then have that arm chopped off by a deathtrap. Then in later movies, they could have had Bond wistfully rubbing the scarred stump and reacting angrily whenever anyone mentioned it.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: Suggest a movie!

I loved Moonraker as a kid, mainly because it had that ludicrous space battle and the laser sounds were awesome. I watched it a few weeks ago and the plot is immensely ass backwards. Bond arrives at Drax's Californian French palace to investigate the disappearance of a shuttle and Drax spends the next half of the movie trying to have Bond killed, thus casting suspicion on himself and ensuring Bond stays on his case....

OHMSS I never much cared for when growing up, but as a late teenager I became aware of the incredibly riske story. It's basically Bond sleeping with pretty girls every night and getting busted because he can't keep his dick in his pants. No kidding, that's how the bad guys see through his disguise. It's got great fist fights too, probably the best up until the climax of GoldenEye. I recall Lazenby being something of a martial arts afficionado.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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Zarban wrote:

But Lynn-Holly Johnson was about 22 playing about 18, and Roger Moore was 3 years older than Sean Connery—but I WASN'T. Suddenly, the reality of an aging Bond became unbearable.

Speaking of confusion over older men and younger women in the cinema: I saw 10 when it came out, and despite being only slightly younger than Bo Derek, I simply couldn't grasp why anyone with an ounce of sense would cheat on Julie Andrews.

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I'd like to see DiF do either Goldfinger, being the template Bond film, Goldeneye for being the one the entry drug for many of us or Casino Royale for being a good recent example.

I actually quite like Moonraker the 90 min set on earth are much better then anything in most of Moore's other films for the most part and the opening sequence where Bond jumps out a plane with no parachute which was just filmed by throwing away stuntmen until they got the shot was epic, until that bloody circus tent!

Ok it's definitely a completely different direction from the book - The only Bond adventure set entirely in Kent.

Extended Edition - 146 - The Rise Of Skywalker
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fcw wrote:

I saw 10 when it came out, and despite being only slightly younger than Bo Derek, I simply couldn't grasp why anyone with an ounce of sense would cheat on Julie Andrews.

Julie Andrews is the perfect woman. I've said it before: I don't know if I'm in love with Julie Andrews or if I want to be her.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

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*insert joke about Zarban's sexual confusion here*

Yeah a lot of cuties in 10, including Julie Andrews. And the leading man is... Dudley Moore? wtf? A great old school movie.

I'm not a huge Bond fan but i love when Connery, sitting in a chair shoots the traitor in cold blood then slowly takes the silencer off (Dr No?). I always liked Dalton, he could've been the best if the movies were better. The actual actors were all good come to think of it, with Brosnan at the bottom.

They always seem to be out of touch with the times or rebooting, why don't they just wait till a great script's ready instead of 'time to make another one, start writing!'

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